I purchased a Surefire Genesis suppressor through the silencer shop this past spring. Apparently the BATF approved it in October. The dealer the suppressor was sent to here in Indianapolis apparently is going out of business and has surrendered his FFL. When I first contacted him in November, he claimed that the form 4 would be mailed to me. Of course, I never received anything from the BATF.
He reached out to me two weeks ago and said he now has a certified copy of the form 4 and I could come by and pick it up. I went ahead and requested my own form 4 certified copy from the BATF for good measure. I just find this entire episode bizarre. When i called the NFA branch, they weren’t of much help other than they told me my suppressor was approved on Oct 6, and I should submit a mailed request for a certified copy of the form 4.
I don’t understand why the suppressor just wanted sent to another local dealer. I find the whole thing strange. I haven’t picked it up yet from him due to work commitments. Thoughts?
The Form 4 (transfer from dealer to YOU) gets sent to the dealer. If it’s approved go pick up the suppressor and YOUR Form 4. The dealer NEVER keeps the original Form 4, he might make a copy for his records but the original Form 4 with your name on it is YOURS and you need it.
Sounds like this guy hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing.
Both the above? Go pick up supressor and stamp/form4. It should be the original copy. When you show up, if its a copy- request the original. If he refuses, contact ATF, but keep posession of the silencer.
Exactly, except he claims that since he surrendered his FFL/SOT license because he is moving, the form 4 should have been sent to me (which makes absolutely zero sense).
I requested the form 4 or at least a certified copy from the BATF. The guy claims he has a certified copy in his possession, so I guess I won’t be thrown into a federal sodomy dungeon if I pick up my legal property with the form 4 certified copy.
That’s why I hit up you guys to see what you thought about this situation. This is suppressor #3 for me, and I find this whole situation to be bizarre. I couldn’t pick it up the last two weekends because of work. I’ll try this week, assuming he has the form 4 or the copy (as he claims). Silencer shop may have saved me $100 on this suppressor by buying it through this guy, but this has been a huge PITA given the number of hours I work each week.
Thanks for the comments. I’d like to hear more thoughts please.
As Steyr said, he’s mistaken and it suggests he has no idea what he’s doing, or that he’s being dishonest. As the transferor, ATF should have sent him the original form 4 with the tax stamp attached, not a certified copy. He would have had to request a certified copy from them after the original was mailed, just as you did.
I hate to assume the worst of people, but it could be that he lost or accidentally destroyed your original and is trying to avoid owning up to it. He’s not allowed to keep the original and as MegademiC says if he has it and is trying to avoid releasing it you should give ATF a call.
I don’t care what he says, ATF is never going to send the approved Form 4 to YOU. It got sent to HIM so he knows it’s an approved transfer. Otherwise every buyer would just claim they got their Approved Form 4 in the mail.
So he’s either completely full of shit, lost the original Form 4 or doesn’t understand his “certified copy” IS an original Form 4. Either way go get your suppressor and an original or certified copy of the Form 4, both will work.
And next time realize $100 is meaningless when it comes to NFA stuff. I know guys who tried to save a buck who at the end of everything would have paid $500 to just have everything submitted correctly the first time.
NFA is still new to a lot of people, and that includes those who are FFL/SOTs and it’s not as simple as a 4473. Errors are big deal, especially approved errors because they usually don’t get changed. I have seen more jacked up Form 4s where some clown didn’t fill things out right and the information on the Form 4 doesn’t exactly match the information on the firearm, and then it got sold again. Of course the new buyer, with his good intentions submits a more accurate Form 4 and then it gets DQ’d because it doesn’t match what is on file. So that means from now on, that particular firearm has “iffy info” associated with it.
Don’t even get me started on problems with E file.
Lol. I should have told the Silencershop guy “thanks but no thanks” and had him send it to the same “big” local dealer my other orders are going through.
I’ll try to pick it up this weekend. Thanks everyone
^^
>>----->[QUOTE=SteyrAUG;]Not that it matters now, but I would also take the time to let Silencershop know how their “recommendation” worked out.[/QUOTE]
LOL OP-2 WKS?
1ST day after getting the noticed it was there, I would have taken atleast 1/2 a vacation day or sick day, to HAUL@$$ and go pick it up! However, I think you mentioned you’ve already got 3 of them, so yeah, I guess it really isn’t a rush…
FWIW: I wouldn’t mind having this PIA You having with this right now, but, this is because I don’t even have 1 FireArm-Muffler yet… :no:
Please let us know how it goes for you this weekend?
The most important thing now is Go Pick It Up Now! Don’t delay; take a long lunch break or work different hours. Don’t let this fool mess up the deal for you. My local ATF office let me make my final (already pending before) transfers after my SOT expired, but there was a brief moment when they were thinking of having me give them the NFA items because I was also terminating my business office lease. They then decided to give me a waiver to store all items at my home because it is in the same city. They worked with me and were cool, and I had some idea of what I was doing. This guy doesn’t sound like that and I could see things going sideways quickly.
All he has to do is give you the can with the Form 4 and fill out a 4473. No NICS required because “the transfer only involves NFA items.” You can do it any hour of the day or night that he agrees to.
I did and let them know about it. They were completely hands off but gave me a $75 gift certificate.
To the other last two members, my job doesn’t allow me to take off very easily. Plus, the dealer has been out of town for most of the month. In fact, he is not back until Jan 1st now. If I don’t hear from him then, I’m calling the BATF again. As long as I get my suppressor, I’ll be happy. My Tikka T3x CTR wants to try the Genesis out badly.
The last 4 NFA items I have purchased (3 suppressors, 1 aow, this year, so post 41F) have required an “FBI background check” done by the dealer, after the 4473 is filled out, on a FBI website. Is this a national thing or state specific, in PA here?
Your dealer doesn’t read/follow directions. The wording changed slightly again on the most recent 4473, but since all “responsible parties” on a trust have a background done on them or if you apply as an individual a background is done on you, so no NICS required. It’s crystal clear. (Prior to 41F, if an item was approved for a trust, then the individual picking it up DID need a NICS, but now the person picking it up should be one of the parties a background was done on)
That box was checked. I believe he said that what he was doing was not a NICS check. It was some other kind of background check that was not done before 41F. He made it sound like a “new system” that was somewhat buggy. We don’t use NICS in PA, we have PICS which goes through the state police i believe, so maybe its just “new” to PA dealers. I looked for a screen shot of the NICS system to see if it looked the same as what he was doing but I couldn’t find one. Next time I go see him I will ask specifically what is being done.
I will be interested in knowing what was done. I just finished reading an article in Sportsman’s News (from Sportsman’s Warehouse) that also mentions the author getting a background check when picking up a suppressor, but again, they’re doing it wrong unless there is an additional state requirement, which I suspect is highly unlikely.
There is the NFA background check and there is the NICS check. They are NOT the same thing. All NFA stuff has to do a FBI background check (fingerprint card, etc.) but you do NOT need to do a NICS check when you complete the 4473 because you have already done a more comprehensive NFA/FBI background check.
Is this done at the dealer or is this the what the FBI is doing prior to giving the ATF the “go ahead” to approve or deny the form?
Are the above bolded the same thing? If not, when would each be done?
