I’ve bumped into some spare cash and I’ve decided that I need to step into a new platform just for kicks. I’m pretty much AR and bolt gunned out, and I have decided that the AK is where I’ll go next. The downside is that I know next to nothing about AK’s.
I know that I want:
[ul]
[li]223/ 5.56- I’m far too invested in .223 from a stockpile and reloading standpoint, and I’m not really open to considering other chamberings.
[/li][li]A folding stock
[/li][li]The ability to mount a red dot on the forend
[/li][/ul]
From the little bit of reading and research that I’ve done, I’m beginning to feel that I need to get an Arsenal 106 and never look back. It has a nice folding stock right out of the gate, and I assume I can (easily?) throw an Ultimak or MI rail unit on it also. However I’m still open to suggestions on a rail unit.
My budget is around $900, and I found the 106 at Atlantic for $700. I know that I’ll also need a few mags as well and that will be the next purchase ($100) and next will come the rail. I’d say I’m leaning towards the MI more so than anything else right now, especially for the price.
As I said at the beginning though, I’m just as ignorant as can be in the world of AK’s, so what do you guys say?
I think you are right on track. There isin’t much more that to recommend that you haven’t found. If you are going with 5.56mm, I definitely recommend the SLR and at $700, it is hard to beat. The Ultimak is what I run along with an Aimpoint Micro T-1. Good luck.
I have an Arsenal SLR 106-31 (Warsaw length folding stock). I did what all the AK wisemen have done…put an UltiMak with an Aimpoint Micro, a flashlight mount, and the extended safety lever. It is now my favorite rifle and I will be spending a lot of money on more magazines…Watch out for that AK bug, I am now looking for an SLR 106 UR that I can SBR into a Krinkov. If I can’t find a 106, I will pick up a SGL 21 or 31 next.
It’s funny that you mention the SBR. After a few minutes of looking at my options I had almost convinced my self that I needed to start with the UR and make it an SBR. But then I decided that the best thing for me on that issue was to cut off one of my duplicate AR’s in order to get my SBR fix. I’m getting that paperwork filled out next week hopefully.
As far as the AK goes, it sounds like I will be calling Atlantic later this afternoon…
Blaine at Atlantic is a good guy. He helped me out a lot when I bought my AK from him. I called and told him I’d buy what he told me to buy, spend what he told me to spend, and laid out what I wanted to do with the gun. Rather than gig an obvious sucker, he talked with me and narrowed down what would work best for me, which turned out to be one of his least expensive models at the time.
Unless you are dead-set on 5.56 I would recommend against 5.56 in an AK platform. They are the least reliable of all AK variants, and with robustness and reliability being the most often sought attributes of AKs, I see it as counter to intent in most applications. Besides that, surplus 5.45 is very cost-effective, evidenced by the many users that invest in 5.45 ARs for training applications.
Ak ammo is cheap to the point where all things considered (ie your time) it rivals reloading for 223.
Imagine being able to go to the range and dump 200 rounds and not pick up a single case. Gone would be the days of obsessing over every spent cartrige lost in the weeds, grass and mud
Honestly that was one of the things that attracted me to the AK, it frees you up to just enjoy shooting. Like you I’m gtg on AR and bolt guns and the needed reloading equipment but sometimes its nice to not think about it and just go out and shoot.
Failure2Stop makes several good points, but I wish to add that in my experience, a properly made 5.56 AK is not going to be measurably less reliable or robust than a 5.45 or 7.62x39 AK. The issue is that there is a higher incidence of improperly built AKs in this caliber in the medium and up price ranges.
Basically, if you get one that works, it will run as well as any other AK.
When problems are encountered with the 5.56 Arsenal rifles, they all seem to be very similar and usually relate to the feed ramp being too small/shallow, the mouth of the chamber having a sharp unfinished angle that causes hangups, and/or the bottom lug of the bolt being too wide and getting hung up on one of the magazine feed lips.
If you are aware of the possibility of issues, and are willing to spend the time or money to correct them in the event of a bad roll of the dice, there are two advantages to choosing a 5.56 AK over 5.45 or 7.62x39 AKs:
[ol]
[li]Commonality of ammunition with other 5.56 rifles you already own.[/li]
[li]Availability of match ammunition.[/li][/ol]
Accuracy wise, My SLR-106 prints around 2.5 MOA with Prvi Partizan 75gr OTM, about 4 MOA with 55gr M193 equivalent Prvi Partizan, and closer to 5-6 MOA with Wolf 55gr.
I am looking to get an AK-74 type rifle myself, and have also considered the 5.56 vs. 5.54 debate.
5.56 Pro:
-Better defensive loads available
-Reloads slightly cheaper than 5.45 surplus with pulled bullets and powder (assuming a pre-existing supply of brass)
-Non corrosive
-Stable long-term ammo supply
-Probably slightly more inherently accurate and flatter shooting
5.45 Pro:
-Extremely inexpensive in bulk if you do not reload
-Cheaper magazines
-Slightly more reliable feeding and extraction
I have a Dillon 650 set up to reload 5.56, so to me the cost of ammo is essentially the same and the nuisance of reloading is no worse than the nuisance of cleaning up after corrosive 5.45. 5.45 mags are a bit less expensive, but the 5.56 AK’s themselves are a bit less expensive.
For me, it boils down to a couple points. First, I consider it far more likely that I will continue to have access to inexpensive 5.56 reloading supplies than inexpensive 5.45 surplus ammunition in the long term. Secondly, I doubt 5.45 defensive load development will ever equal what is commercially available in 5.56. Because I am confident that a new SLR-106 with a corrected feed ramp will be extremely reliable, that is what I plan to get as soon as I can find one.
Well… I showed me! I called my local shop this morning to see if they could lay hands on an Arsenal 106 (Atlantic has nothing in 223, and I got the same answers from EVERYBODY else when trying to find one) and he told me that they couldn’t find any Arsenal’s but that he had just gotten the nicest example of a Polish Tantal as he’d ever seen in, used /unfired. My price… $395 for the gun and five Bulgaian mags.
I got the chance to run look at it, and it was indeed the tightest “cheap” AK I’ve ever handled. For that price I can get the MI rails, gun, and 3K rounds for what the Arsenal would cost me, so I jumped in.
I found Anchor Zero Six to have the most profound statement of this entire thread in reference to chasing brass… This should indeed be a fun and relaxing rifle to shoot and play with.
Thanks for all of the help guys, I will definitely put up some pics and a range report when I get it out for the first time.
Be sure to shoot that Tantal before spending a lot on extras for it, if it’s a FAIR build (which I suspect it may be for that price) a lot of them have keyholing issues.
You’re on the right track. Due to the taper (or lack thereof) 5.56 ammo, AK’s in that caliber are generally regarded as less reliable. However, a properly build one shouldn’t give you too many problems so long as you have proper magazines.
That can be a downside for some, as properly built 5.56 AK mags are ~$30 a pop. You can forget surplus mags because every nation that produced/produces 5.56 AK’s used a different magazine standard. 5.45 mags can be converted (you have to mod the follower) but they are about as reliable as using 5.56 AR mags in a 5.45 AR (it means it’s not reliable at all and should be avoided).
Ultimak + T1 is a hard one to beat. Now that MI has different uppers for specific optics that allow for a cowitness it’s a viable option. However, what are you going to use the rails for? If it’s just a RDS and a white light the Ultimak will fit you perfectly.
That is the plan… The first accessory I’m getting is a 2K round case of ammo. I plan on “forgetting” one of them so that I will always have at least one, then when I shoot the other one up, I’ll buy two more.
I know the shop owner and all of his guys pretty well at this particular shop and I sell them holsters, so we shoot pretty straight with each other (not that they lie to other “normal” customers) and he sold this rifle to the original owner. He said that he pulled two from the same lot mine came from and they were both excellent shooters and they were trouble free. Another friend of mine works there and he also has a pair (of these particular Tantals…) and he reported the same thing, so I have high hopes that mine will be ready to rock right out of the box.
As for optics, I’ll probably cheap out for a while. I know that I’m violating the cardinal rule of accessory buying on this, but I’ve got some .22’s that I could always throw a cheapish red dot on later. Right now I’m leaning towards the Primary Arms M3 clone/ MI rail package for just under $200.
I never liked the feel of M3 sized optics over the handguard of AKs. I made do when Ultimak was the only viable solution, but times and optics have changed.
I’d recommend staying away from Century-built anything, particularly AK’s, and definitely anything they build in 5.45.
I’ve had an apple outta that barrel (pun intended). They use very crappy US-made barrels whose steel is as soft as tootsie rolls, and have very faint rifling. Bullets come out tumbling like tomahawks.
Those guns are cheap for a reason…
Unless of course you buy one of their Bulgarians, and find a good AK 'smith who can install one of these for you.
It really depends on what you consider a fair price.
I got mine for ~$350 from J&G. Seems like a decent price to me - I remember buying new AK’s for $225. Had it been equipped with a good barrel, it would have been a bargain indeed.
Barrel cost $115. Figure a bare minimum of $250 for a smith to rebarrel and refinish the gun (parkerizing on mine seemed thin but it made a good foundation for duracoating), plus ~$40 to replace the godawful buttstock (at the very least - you’d probably want to replace the handguards too) and total cost for a GTG AK-74 gets into the neighborhood of $750.
If you factor all that in, then the prices charged by well-known AK builders starts sounding more reasonable.
