Healthcare Question

This one has been perplexing me and since you guys are a knowledgable lot, I thought I’d pose the question here.

We all agree that Obamacare was an atrocity and it needs to be repealed, right? Here is my question: Why are we repealing one government healthcare POS and replacing it with another different government POS health care plan? Can’t we just repeal it and let things go back the way they were before the government was so involved in healthcare? The way it was before Obamacare? I didn’t like Obamacare because its none of the government’s business. I’m not going to like the Republican plan for the same reason. The whole point of getting rid of Obamacare is to not have a government mandated healthcare plan. Isn’t it?

I want the government out of my health care, and then we can begin working on the rampant waste, overpaid unnecessary administrators and bureaucracy, ridiculously high liability insurance premiums for hospitals and all of their suppliers, etc… I used to buy my own health insurance out of pocket, and it was reasonable. It was also true “full” coverage with no co-pays or deductibles. If we are going to pass health care laws, it should be laws that make health care affordable again, not laws that keep Uncle Sam’s hand on my doctor’s shoulder or rob the common man of half his income to pay outrageous administrator salaries and fight frivolous lawsuits.

Please enlighten me. Am I just ignorant? Overly idealistic? Naive? We once had a healthcare system that worked in this country. It was never perfect, but a person could get good coverage for their family for a reasonable price. What happened? Where did we go wrong? How do we get back?

Follow the $$$.

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The way it was before Obamacare didn’t work either. Healthcare had become prohibitively expensive.

Of course Obamacare just made things worse. Not better.

Just like with most issues nobody is willing to look at the entire issue and make hard choices.

I don’t know what the answer is.

What Bulletdog said: begin working on the rampant waste, overpaid unnecessary administrators and bureaucracy, ridiculously high liability insurance premiums for hospitals and all of their suppliers, etc… needs to happen.

The rub is that it I don’t think it will happen without some degree of evenhanded government regulation. How is that possible with today’s campaign finance rules, where going against big business results in millions of dollars flushed into your opponents campaign coffers?

Oversimplified, the problem is, those that can fix the problem are part of the problem. They either make their living within the system, or are supported by lobbyists from the system. They don’t want to REALLY fix the system because to do so would cost them, and THEY aren’t suffering.

How many of the folks involved in crafting this reform are struggling to pay health insurance premiums, or hospital/doctor bills?

And really, when you get right down to it, how many of us are really struggling with medical bills and insurance?

Because somebody has to pony up for the $45 BILLION dollars they want to spend on opiod recovery for addicts. And most critics complain it isn’t enough enough money.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2017/06/20/434708/senates-opioid-fund-cannot-substitute-health-coverage/

Until people have a direct cost associated with their care, demand for care, demand for diagnostics, doctors don’t have to practice defensive medicine, and providers aren’t forced to treat those that cannot and will not pay, problems will persist.

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The biggest problem with healthcare, and the major reason for unnecessary cost increases over the last 30 years has been increased government intrusion with its attendant overregulation. Obamacare amplified that overregulation immensely. THAT is the reason why hospitals and health care systems have to have such an administrative burden – to deal with the regulatory environment, which is a truly amazing cluster****. The insurance companies had made it bad enough. The liberal agenda made it worse. Obamacare made it a disaster. I do not believe for a second that any healthcare plan coming out of Washington will succeed in rolling that back. The government has an immense appetite for getting its fingers into the works of any expensive private sector endeavor.

In the end, the people of the US believe that they have a right to health care. And as Americans, they believe that they have a right to the very BEST health care. Any government-run health care system (like the VA Hospital System) is the exact opposite of a cheap and high quality health care system. A single-payer system, when it finally arrives, will be the death of the financial pre-eminence of the USA, and health care will get worse.

Obama care is trash but it’s not like things were perfect before Obama care either. The whole system is convoluted and needs to be burned to the ground and we just need to start over.

How would you do that? Who is going to do that? I strongly doubt that the single-payer system you propose would improve anything about the way health care is delivered, it’s quality, or how much it costs.

Who said I would propose single payer?

And no one is going to completely redo the system because that would be nearly impossible with our government

OK. You’re correct. I assumed you were proposing single-payer because the government, with its legislative and regulatory power, is the only entity that has the capability to ignore all the moving parts of the existing system and then “burn it to the ground”.

You’re right…it will be impossible. The government can’t burn it to the ground. They have to slowly boil that frog. The republican agenda, at least their stated agenda, was a major step toward taking that frog off the burner and that’s one of the big reasons why the left is so very pissed about the Democrat loss last November. So much entitlement progress forestalled…at least for the time being. I’m confident that they see it only as a setback. In no way do they believe that they might have misread the will of the American people.

I’m reminded of the left’s agenda a lot this weekend…my brother-in-law and family are up here for July 4th holiday. He’s from Los Angeles and is a big player in the entertainment industry (Steven Colbert was a groomsman in his wedding). He is otherwise a great guy and we’re good friends, but…we sustain that by not talking politics.

Perhaps someone needs to sit the American Public down and explain to them that “Life Isn’t Fair.” then we can explain that although it isn’t fair you can do a number of things to have better health and if you do those things your chances are going to be much better to stay healthy and not need as much medical care outside of a annual physical.
Health Care needs to remain a business, it needs to turn a profit and be less regulated. Insurance purchases need to be deregulated so that insurance can be sold across State lines. Big Pharma needs to be reigned in and held accountable, if the FDA does much of the R&D for them, then they need to sell the same drugs world wide at the same price. Other than that the .Fed.Gov, needs to step away from the table. Step up and prosecute Medicaid and Medicare fraud and put some serious time behind being found guilty.
Return the burden to the States, if they want Socialized Medicine, let them have at it and figure it out on their own.
A free market devoid of an over-site that is burdensome, usually drives prices down, however the temptation to step up and stick your fingers in to one sixth of the economy is more than some in DC can bare to see go to waste.

Coming soon to a government near you…death panels. The U.K. and it’s NHS have been making these decisions for quite some time.

So which of the following is the real driver in healthcare costs:

General practitioner compensation?

Specialist/Surgeon compensation?

Pharmaceutical costs?

Hospitalization costs?

Insurance costs/stipulations?

I know this is an overly simple listing but, to me, it serves to illuminate the problem. To me the bottom three are the issues. They won’t be corrected without some degree of regulation.

If most Americans thought about it, they would agree that a free market approach probably isn’t the best way to deal with medical emergencies, and that is what the major complaints seem to be stemming from - costs of hospitalization and medication costs.

I think the .gov needs to ensure that hospitals and healthcare providers can only charge one rate for non-elective treatment regardless of whether the patient is insured or is footing the bill on their own.

As an example: recently I had a root canal and a crown placed on a tooth. Delta Dental only covered the root canal, not the crown. Silly me, I had not initially renewed delta when I transitioned to tri-care. As a result when I signed on with delta again I had not yet been insured long enough for them to cover the crown. Fair enough, I could see that. Initially the dental office had thought that delta would cover it all, when they got the denial on the crown they sent me another bill. Not understanding the issue I went down to chat with them and go over the bill. As they explained the bill I mentioned that I thought it was wrong that they charged less for those who had insurance. They quickly assured me they had given me the write-off. When I said, yeah, but if I had walked though the door without insurance I would be paying you 2400.00 instead of 1200.00, you charge more if the person doesn’t have insurance. ‘No we charge everyone the same, the insurance makes us write off what they wont pay.’ I talked with them for a couple of moments about this, during the conversation eliciting the fact from them that the vast majority of their patients were insured. When I remarked that judging from the waterfall in the waiting room they were doing okay at the insurance rate, so why charge more, the discussion went circular, so I smiled, paid my bill and walked out.

That my friends, is the root (pun intended) of the problem.

The government also needs to repeal the ban on Medicare’s negotiating on prescription drug pricing. See this short article: http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/09/19/the-politics-of-medicare-and-drug-price-negotiation/

Additionally, the government needs to ensure that non-profit hospitals are truly run with a non-profit motive.

I think these things would make a start. But as I have said in other posts, ain’t going to happen because the SCOTUS decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, ensured that our government is for sale to the highest paying special interest group.

Wow, what a commie.

Spend a night in an ER and you’d learn how clueless you are, especially about emergencies.

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The only problem I have with Emergency Room care is that, the Hobo’s, Gimmie Dat’s, Drug Abusers and Psycho’s seem to take up way too much room and slow down legitimate emergencies from being cared for.
When you’re sitting next to a scabie ridden meth head picking her scabs and mumbling to herself it is one thing, when she vomits on your shoe it is quite another.

The ER has become primary care for a large segment of our population because they “can’t afford” insurance and/or primary care AND tobacco, alcohol, cell phones, satellite TV, eating out two meals a day, car payments, fancy clothes, big screen TVs, street drugs, etc.

Choices don’t have consequences because of the goddamn bleeding heart liberals like 26.

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Where is the “Like” button?

I really don’t appreciate the expletive. I can accept the bleeding heart liberal, but don’t appreciate the other.

In my view I’m more of a moderate than a liberal.

If you want we can compare ER stories.

I think that our primary difference is that you pretty much spout the party line with the venom thrown in, and I’m a little more circumspect and try to look at both sides of issues, there are no simple answers.

My goal in life isn’t necessarily to please you, or anyone else.

It is an unfixable problem.

There is far more expense associated with modern medicine.
Think MRIs, Dilaysis, Open Heart Sugery that has become common.

There are no coherent end of life standards. People can be kept alive using medical care over and over for decades. Should we pay for several admissions to the ICU each year for the non verbal, non moving nursing home patient?

There are no coherent standards for when a patient is done for. You have brain mets from your lung cancer or mets everywhere from your breast cancer? A lot of money is going o be spent vs. just letting you go home with some comfort medicines and stop coming to the hospital.

There are no repercussions for irresponsibility. You can’t say, this is the tenth time in three months you skipped dialysis or your skill smoking crack since your last heart attack, funk you, no more care.

Ther is a shortage of physicians. This is not some AMA driven monopoly. The number of people that can successfully pass MD school and the boards is finite.

Lawyers make fortunes from medicine. We should do something about that.

Insurance executives, etc. Make fortunes from medicine. We should do something about that.

Medical administration has grown about 2500% in hospitals since the 1970s. What are we getting from those personnel for that money? How much would we save and how much more efficient would it be without a lot of them?

Drug companies need the incentive of huge profits to come up with medicines. They have massive investment costs. Somebody has to eat this. Right now it is the US and other countires make out like a bandit. We could trim some costs by giving them some legal protections and cutting them from direct advertising to patients, etc. We could have government take over but people punching the clock getting paid the same like the VA gives you VA like results.

Physician salaries…
After we take a look at insurance executives, administrators, lawyer expenses, and cities bankrupt from OT and pensions for LE and FD personnel that make more per hour than many physicians in the city, review the shortage of physicians, and the academic and training requirements and hours worked, I think we will find it’s not the issue. When your daughter gets thrown from a horse and taken to the ER or your wife in a bad car accident, I think you will want the EM specialist and Neurosurgeon and the Trauma Surgeon to be shit hot, high quality, highly paid professionals. I suspect you give two shits that the insurance executive makes four times as much as any of them making policies to approve or pay for as little of their care as possible. OR the other insurance personnel getting rich off their malpractice premiums. Or the lawyer getting rich off them suing the hospital for the meth head junkie shorting at cops they did not save.

Now, some people just have bad genes, bad luck, etc. But when all is said and done a ton of the people eating billions of medical care for their renal failure, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, sepsis, and trauma straight up did it to themselves. They have special programs helping them and even with all that help still won’t take care of themselves. And productive citizens eat the cost in a myriad of ways. You get up, and every aspect of your life is affected by supporting and eating the time and financial costs of supporting a good portion of society. The only solution that would be effective would be to say fuk these asholes and let them die in the streets. Most are not willing to do so. So the problem won’t be solved.

Also, right now EDs and hospitals MUST care for you when you show up. Whether you are a citizen or not. Whether it’s 100% your own damn fault or not. So they get paid NOTHING for a lot of stuff that has real costs. They are eating those costs. Even when those losers get their SSDI, Medicaid, etc. It still loses money.

Let’s say they had 1000 Medicaid / Medicare patients last month, and billed half a million dollars worth of stuff. They got approved for 250k, but asked for more documentation, justification, etc. For example, the guy got repeat X rays of a fracture for various reason but they only paid for one X ray, etc. And ended with 150K. They may have spent 300K, billed 500k, got approved for 250k, and ended up with 150K. Better than none, but did not cover their costs.

And, those surgeons, etc. Must by law care for those patients, can be sued by those patients, and, believe it or not, cannot even write all that stuff they did off as a loss.

So they rape the shit out of paying, well insured patients to cover it.

and I get that the dude who works as a janitor at the school and his wife is a bus driver could never afford the costs of modern medicine when his kid gets leukemia. I want a system of subsidized benefits for people that work.

But should we be paying for the non citizen undocumented worker that gets leukemia?

Should we be paying for the non working junkie that get leukemia?

A band aid would be a basic government health care system, like a civilian VA for citizens. With basic exams, urgent care, a base level of medicine.

Successful, productive citizens can have better insurance and a better care system.

It’s not fair, but plenty of other countries do it. Hell, under the awesome Canadian system plenty come here to pay for a quicker or better care.

Right now we have productive citizens enslaved to pay for non productive ones,
Medical personnel enslaved to care for people,
And a ton of people that are not the patient and are not the medical personnel siphoning off a lot of money.

It is like being on a sinking ship. There is no way to do anything but expedient repairs that won’t work while underway. Some bad weather is coming in. There is no way to get everyone to shore.