HALO vs. SOCOM: attachment system durability?

Hi everyone,

Quick question for all of you.

I’ve currently got Form 4s in for a HALO as well as a SOCOM-556. One thing that I noticed was that the SOCOM suppressor’s mounting system is actually a bit more complex than I thought (in terms of construction, not ease of use).

The attachment system of the SOCOMs is unquestionably more advanced and rock solid, but how durable/rugged is it? How much abuse can it take without screwing up the mechanism? Can it take some hard knocks?

At first glance, the HALO’s attachment system actually seemed to be more durable. It’s simple, and I can’t see any sort of abuse screwing it up since it’s just 2 parts (unless the threads would get damaged?).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone (Garin?) had any input. The SOCOM is my gun collection’s Rolls Royce, and I was just curious as to what this aspect of it could handle.

Can’t speak about the Socom but I’ve been running HALOs with zero issues for about 5-6 years now.

I’ve heard of some guys overseas chest thumping some questionable locals with their “socom” suppressors attached and never heard of any damage done to the attachment function.

Those could have been NT4 cans.

I haven’t tested or ran the numbers, but stayed at an Holiday Inn express last night.:laugh:

Last year I was in the market for a 7.62 multi-cal can, and after some heavy research, settled on the Surefire RC, and so I’m familiar with Surefire suppressors QD mechanism - and here are just some of my observations when comparing the two. Although Gemtech Halo and Surefire 556-RC mount interface may initially seem like two entirely different systems, with one essentially an upgraded thread-on, while the other a true QD, the two actually use the same method of retention - compression force on the rear of the muzzle device to hold the suppressor in place. Both use the retaining collar to clamp onto the muzzle device via threads. However Surefire’s threads can’t be seen, as the retaining collar is integrated into the suppressor, with the latch/teeth only functioning to lock the retaining collar in place, whereas the Gemtech retaining collar is a separate part entirely, requiring two hands to mount and is thread on. Surefire was able to integrate the retaining collar onto the suppressor by using a cam lock design - the retaining collar only needs to be turned about half a rotation to be fully locked. So both may not function or look the same, but fundamentally both apply a compressive force on the rear of the muzzle device. It’s hard to describe in words, so here are some diagrams that I saved back when I was doing research - trying to understand how the Surefire QD mechanism functioned.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20100313743

For load paths, here’s a quick run down in tension, compression and torque. In tension, for either suppressors to be pulled off, the external threads on the suppressor body or internal threads on the retainer collar would have to fail - assuming necking of the thin walled outer tube, and core containing the baffle stack doesn’t occur first. In compression, as if used as a “meat masher” to strike someone in the face, the Surefire muzzle device has a taper surface that mates with the interior wall of the suppressor, and that engagement surface area will carry load assuming the baffle stack and outer tube don’t buckle first. I’m unfamiliar with Gemtech interior engagement surface so can’t comment there. In torque, the Surefire can was designed to be timed, so that the suppressor is mounted consistently each and every time, via the pin extrusion on bottom dead center on the muzzle device, so suppressor cannot rotate and the pin/tongue will carry load. However, I believe the Gemtech suppressor can rotate around the bore axis, as the retainer collar and suppressor are brought together, so if enough force is applied you could rotate the suppressor.

For durability, I assume you mean the number of times the can is mounted and unmounted. Durability of the mount would be dependent on selected pitch, thread and materials with respect to strength, propensity to cross thread or gall. Though Gemtech threads are exposed when unlocked it’s a non issue. But Surefire does feature a locking mechanism to prevent the retaining collar from backing off. So for the locking latch to work loose, either the teeth or spring will need to give. Even if they did, the latch and springs look easily serviceable. But let’s also look at it from a larger perspective, I’m speculating (Garin will have to say what the latch is officially rated at), but let’s say conservatively the latch spring or teeth is rated only to say 100,000 compression cycles, my guess it’s in the millions, but assuming you mounted and unmounted the can, and fired just one round each time, that be equivalent to say 50,000 rds fired per two compression cycles on the latch, and if barrel life is rated to 10,000 rounds, you’d have to re-barrel 5 times, before having to replace the spring. Let’s go further and cut the rated cycles by half, spring only rated at 50,000 compression cycles, then that’s what, 25k rounds, so 2.5 barrels?

In short, I wouldn’t loose any sleep.

HALO owner, can’t speak to the Surefire.

The HALO seems to me to be pretty good at everything, but not the best at anything. Very simple from a user standpoint, and you’d have to be seriously dense to put it on wrong. I’ve never had problems with it loosening, but it has no latching mechanism, so I can imagine it happening. I love that it doesn’t need a Gucci/$200 muzzle attachment.

A good system, maybe a little dated these days.

Surefire socom, can’t speak to the Gemtech.

If you want a single AR can, or absolutely need an A2 or compatible mount, the gemtech seems fine. For everything else, the socom is superior. It’s not really even a contest. That’s not to say the gemtech is useless, I like the idea of the halo actually. But it’s pretty much AR only where the Socom system is Mk18 (short 556) to Mk13 (300wm).

What he said. I’d say the halo seems to be able to take some abuse as well.

As far as the halo coming loose I don’t think that will be a problem. If anything they are known to pretty much carbon weld themselfs in place. They can be a bit of a pain to take off.

TOS had a thread where someone put like 30k rounds or something crazy though a halo with much of it being full auto. They had problems getting it off the rifle and the a2 flash hider was pretty wasted under it but it lasted.

Thanks for the replies, everyone, especially Ming. :slight_smile:

My greatest concern isn’t with attach/detach cycles, but rather the suppressor getting knocked around and, essentially, abused. Dropped while mounted, knocked into things, being exposed to humid environments, etc.

Essentially, the Surefire mount – due to its mechanical “complexity” (though it’s pretty simple) – seems a bit more vulnerable in these regards than the HALO. The spring could rust out, the latch could break, a pin could shear, etc. I just wasn’t sure if those observations were true weaknesses in the design or not. Heck, for all I know, the military testing could have proven that the SOCOM has the most abuse-resistant mounting mechanism in the world.

(P.S.: the HALO is mounted on a Vortex, so no worries on rotation or anything like that; the Vortex locks it all in)

You are over thinking ALL of your concerns, but this bit I quoted is closer to the point than most everything else you are going on about.

The mil chose the socom line for Mk18s, M4s, and Mk13 300wm rifles. The selection process was huge (as its been described to me) and the socom pulled out ahead over everything on the market.

The halo is not a terrible can, but it’s a far scream from the Socom cans. Like Toyota to BMW.

To say the Socom is more “vulnerable” than the Gemtech becsuse there is a spring and pin, is not even close to accurate.

I promise our suppressors are built to be used day in and day out and are combat proven. All the different generations have been subjected to a ton of testing internally and externally by many outside sources. That is why we have a life time warranty on the construction and materials used in them. You can be assured we will stand behind what we built.