I guess this won’t end well.
M_P
I’m not a troll man, I just speak my mind. I said what I had to say, not much more for me to add to the thread at this point. But if I’m wrong in any of the examples that I provided please feel free to counter those points with some evidence to the contrary.
The last time we went there to help them stabilize their situation (do they even have a working government to this day?) with troops and relief, they met us at the docks with guns and machetes. Now they are wiling to take our help? As with most of the dirt bag countries, most of the $$$ and aid will end up in some warlords place where he will sell it back to his own people. Aid, without adequate security, is usually a cluster fu*&. :rolleyes:
We have a white 3rd world territory right here in the Appalachian, USA, which only in the last couple of decades has seen improvements significant enough to join the economic mainstream…after tons of welfare, handouts, and government subsidies.
I’m not sure how relevant that is to anything though since Haiti was decimated by an earthquake. I didn’t know race determined who got hit by natural disasters
Hey guys, it seems weird to me that our country is falling over themselves to go help out down there but it took a more laxadasical attitude towards the Katrina victims.
Could be that you are dealing with a nation that can do nothing to help itself. Katrina was in a state that should have been able to do much more than they did, considering the amount of time they had to prepare and based upon how long they waited to allow the federal gov to come in and help them.
Or you can just blame Bush like everybody else.:rolleyes:
I think we should help, becuase that is what Americans do while the world wrings its hands. As others have stated, it should be US run and tightly monitored. The only way Obama can screw this up is to try to bring the rest of the world, or even just the hemisphere, on board. Then it will degenerate into a corrupt, top heavy abortion.
As to Haiti, the only thing that sets them apart is that they are neighbors. Crap hole African countries have disasters and we don’t do anything about them. I have never been there but no several people that have and it is not positive. My favorite was “Haiti is the only place I have ever been that has human road kill.” Even the Iraqis and the Afghans don’t leave bodies laying around. The single connecting thread for the third world is the idea that the second an individual has any power or wisdom, they immediately screw everyone around them with it.
My church had a missionary team visit, to ask for money. The man was very forthright about the fact that their preaching school in Zambia had been a disaster. They trained up a few classes of students who immediately started a bunch of cults nabbing all the money and tagging all the wives within reach. They now have a probationary system where they work the crap out of a preacher candidate for two years before they start the course of study.
As to Haiti, we should do it because of what we are about, not what they are about.
Here is my perspective on the Haiti incident.
Haiti is a crap hole on a good day and much due to its own actions. Wasted natural resources, short term focused, me me me attitude. It reminds me heavily of some other third/fourth world nationals I have dealt with. Go to the other side of the island and you will see a country that is much more organized, focused, and prosperous. Why? The people have had a taste of capitalism and have invested in the “what can I do for myself long term?” and not “what can I get today, preferably for free?”
This disaster may be a turning point for the country but I doubt it.
Should we help? Yes, it is what we do because we are good and honorable people. Should non-emergent support come from tax dollars? Not really in my opinion. Emergent aid should be covered by tax dollars to an extent as it is a good opportunity for agencies to refine response plans and get some solid FOR REAL practice at skills for when a disaster hits us here in the US. FEMA USAR/DMAT teams dont need to sit on the shelf, they need to get actual experience so that they can better respond to the next 9/11 or Katrina.
Has this been politicized? Yeah, like it or not, perspective is everything and when it takes days to address a self-admitted terrorist act and hours to respond to a natural disaster (and we were still behind other countries on the response to Haiti) the appearance is that disaster response to another nation is more important than the stability and security of the US. This is inappropriate.
Could we improve the way money is spent in disasters/aid sent to other countries? Yes. Encourage more products to be built in the US so that when events occur and we spend millions of dollars on equipment, water, food, medicine, gear, tents, etc, etc it will stimulate the US economy directly and not China or other widget manufacturing countries.
As well, much of the non-emergent recovery should be handled by charity and international organizations allowing people who want to donate and can afford to donate, do so. This is preferable to adding to our current debt, one day we may get hit hard and not have the capital to recover. I know, tough thing to think of but must be considered.
Obama is asking Bush to head up relief efforts, apparently.
Now I really feel bad for those people.
M_P
That place is Karma in effect. Not because they are black, but because they are morally foul, violent and corrupt.
And they don’t build up to code.
I can speak from experience on that one. It sucked. That’s all I need to say.
I would say that I am unimpressed by 90% of what I have read here. I speak Kreyol and spent a fair amount of time in Haiti during the 90s. I never had the issues with Haitians in Haiti that I am reading here. I know Gitmo was an entirely different matter but inter people for any length of time and you can expect the worst to come out. Lock some Americans up for several months whose only crime was to try to get away from anarchy or repression and see how they act. I would hardly call their reactions to their plight extraordinary.
Why did the President jump all over this like a Lieutenant on a hand grenade? That’s simple; the national consciousness still remembers Katrina vividly and Obama doesn’t want to see Kanye on TV saying that he hates black people.
Should we help Haiti? Absolutely. They are right here in our hemisphere and they have much in common with us. Both of our countries violently threw off the yoke of colonial oppression and we both belong to the Organization of American States.
For most Haitians life was a desperate exercise even in the best of times. Despite what one would expect, the common people that I was exposed to shared what little they had. No one went hungry if someone had something to eat. This isn’t to say that Haiti doesn’t have its cast of characters. On the contrary, hustling is a way of life, from the man on the street corner to the Presidential palace. But that isn’t much different that what you can find in this country in areas of economic depression. I guess that I am saying that Haitians are people and they face a tough row to hoe.
Will we solve Haiti’s problems? No, but we can alleviate some of the suffering. It is not only the humanitarian thing to do and but what a partner in the OAS would do. After all, they are a proud people and deserve our support. Ignorance is Haiti’s biggest enemy. As long as the people remain uneducated they will continue a cycle of poverty and pain. Anything we do now, without a dedicated long-term strategy will just be a band aid.
My comments are based on my experience in Haiti, living amongst the people. I have a feeling that most of the negativity expressed toward Haiti is from those who have had no interaction with the country or its people. Some will prefer to not help and I can respect that, but what I refuse to accept are those who will speak ill of a people out of their own ignorance. Xenophobia is one of the issues perpetuating our country’s cycle of short-sighted foreign policy and often why these problems fester.
As a final note, I have to say that I am moved as I look at the destruction in areas where I served. I lived for a time in Dessalines Barracks behind the National Palace. The National Palace collapsed on itself. I wonder if the team house where I lived in Boutilliere is still clinging to the side of the mountain. I doubt it. The desolation is incredible. I am aghast.
That’s exactly it.
This is Obama’s chance, in the midst of huge domestic problems, to show himself in a positive light compared to his predecessor on the issue of natural disaster response. Katrina played a huge role in decimating GWB’s public support. There is no question in my mind that somewhere, one of Obama’s handlers is telling him that “Haiti is your New Orleans,” and hoping that the American people will love him for further increasing our national debt to help a country that is neutral towards the US at the best of times.
On the other hand, there are tens of thousands of Americans in Haiti and our government should be doing what’s necessary to locate, rescue, and retrieve them regardless of anything else. That’s not humanitarian, it’s national security.
Our country has poured BILLIONS into Haiti, for what? That country hasn’t developed enough for that cost and is still considered a 3rd world nation. Some of the Americans that are living there are sunning in a tropical paradise, they live like kings. I am just feeling a bit detached from the whole thing.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, what happened there is catastrophic. But it isn’t any different than a Typhoon, or other natural disaster. Why does this country rush to render aid when there are hundreds of other nations that could? Why are we the worlds aid program? It doesn’t buy us anything. We are still the most hated. I think we should be fixing our own backyard before we help the guy on the other side of town. Haiti made their own bed, it’s tragic what has happened but I cannot see why the U.S. has to rebuild it. we have homeless children starving in this country but I don’t see millions of dollars donated to feed them. It’s a shame.
The whole thing reeks of Obama trying to take the emphasis away from his failures. He’ll be deemed the savior of Haiti, wow.
Wow at this thread. Up to 500,000 people dead in a natural disaster and this is the reaction you guys have.
There is a video of Keith Olbermann and his comments on MSNBC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-PEaWUduCM&feature=player_embedded#
I welcome you all to view it, because thats the exact same reaction I have after reading alot of this. It makes me even more proud Mr. Olbermann is not of the same skin colour that I am.
Atleast we know where everyone is coming from.
Keith Olbermann is a staunch leftist.
You are quoting Kieth Olberman here? The absolute most left, angry and biast mainstream “journalist” to ever hit the airways? And you sound proud of endorsing this crap?
First, not even close to 500,000 dead. Maybe a tenth of that. Check your facts.
Second, the place is a cesspool in almost every single aspect. There are always good among the majority bad, but that by no means dictates that they are free from judgment as a people. Just as we are not exempt either.
Haiti is an example of corrupt slop. Through their unfathomable corruption and selfishness, they have reap what they have sown. Aid workers fear going there to help. What does that tell you?
No pity whatsoever…except for the small children.
I’d hate to be in a world full of heartless cynicals. A whole lot of people died, jokes are freakin’ tasteless.
Making jokes to get over something? What’s there to get over when you don’t give a crap in the first place?! :rolleyes:
I’m sure out of the tens of thousands + of people who’ve perished, lots were decent folk.
Enough. :rolleyes: