The G36, apparently, is doomed. H&K looks like they are losing the PR war on this one. I don’t know if the G36 really has poorer hot-barrel accuracy than competing platforms, but at this point it looks like the issue is lost. I seriously doubt H&K will survive this.
In the German Armed Forces, the G36 is on the bubble, even after the military has accepted hundreds of thousands of these rifles already. The MOD is seriously considering selecting some different rifle as an interim rifle. HK thought they could lobby their way out of trouble, and they have failed; as the only likely complete solution provider inside Germany, the bad odor they are now in with the major parties (CDU, SPD, and even the anti-defense Greens) means they have an uphill fight to either prevent the replacement of the G36, or provide the substitute.
It’s been an open secret for a while that a moderate use G36 has had snags. I was disillusioned of them myself and anyone who still had any in issue before going to an AR-15 less than affectionately referred to them as “street sweepers” for not being able to retain zero after a while.
It is rather sad, because an updated AR-18, which it was intended to be, had promise. But after nigh in 20 years, with a war and peacekeeping in between, it is time to own up.
I sorta thought, and hope that they do, just do a one for one of HK416s and put the G36 out as parts kits so the video game and hobby crowd can do conversions.
Why they haven’t already had all issue 416s now vexes me.
Well they could always get the contract to supply 416s. Not saying that they will, but H&K has needed to remove head from ass for some time, maybe this will be the catalyst for them to do so. I mean, we know they can build decent rifle and pistols, the question is can they sell those rifles and pistols.
On a nerd note, would quite like a G36, or semi, not jacked up PC version, of the rifle. Got to run a G36C one time, and was a neat rifle, had issues, but was neat none the less, though was a bitch to control on FA compared to the MP5, which to be honest if I could have one FA gun that would be it.
On a side note, wasn’t H&K supposed to be bringing in a civy version of the rifle this year or did that end up getting scrapped?
I have read that as well and think it would be sort of pointless. I’m not a SCAR person but would sooner have that rifle if I just felt that I needed a folding stock. (I don’t).
The HK41x series is HKs future and salvation at this point. G28s to replace aging SG1s and MSG90s. 416s to replace G36s.
They have stuff that works. They just need to let it sell. On the commercial side, a light profile 556 barrel would go such a long way.
Natural selection is telling us that the AR is pretty much the platform and the days of everyone having their own NATO rifle and own NATO mag need to go away.
The 416 costs too much. The Germans will never cough up the money for them. The only country on earth to adopt it for general issue is a major oil producer.
H&K has already offered to develop a fix, to implement the fix for future production, and to retrofit all G36s in the German inventory at no cost to the German government. The German government refused.
At this point, my money is on either nothing will happen or the infantry of the Bundeswehr will be doing quals with rocks.
I don’t think it would be pointless. If the rifle needed to perform better than X, Y, or Z to be sold then there would be a whole hell of a lot less rifles on the market. Hell, if we took that tact, I doubt we’d see a lot of rifles that are on the market that many consider decent, SCAR included.
I also think if they offered the semi version it would sell, and while not hit in the tactical crowd it would reach the collector(If it wasn’t a jacked up rifle like the SL8), and those wanting something different, or just general firearm enthusiast, hell look at the SIG 5.56 rifles that they have brought in in recent years. Some of those were of dubious quality, often more expensive than a quality AR and still sold like hot cakes. Or even the MKE rifles of the MP5 linage, look at how well they sold. The market is there for them to sell to if they just get head from ass and figure out how to get the rifles here, or how to get manufacturing out of Germany. Military contracts may have been their life blood, but commercial sales will be their saving grace if they can figure that shit out.
All that said. Anything we think is speculation. Wasn’t H&K supposed to go under and be sold a couple years ago, or what is last year, or ten years earlier. As with anything, I will wait to see what happens.
My old team leader was stationed in Germany for a bit and went to one of those training exercises (there is a name for it that I cant remember) where you do familiarity fire with each others weapons. He said specifically that the German soldiers wished they had M16/M4s and said the rifles became inaccurate when hot. This was back in the early 2000s.
Well I have always admired H&K. A very large percentage of firearms innovations over the last 50 years have come out of their little engineering firm. I hope this is all BS but there sure is a lot of smoke at this point.
Short of having access to test rifles it is hard to say. Politics can make the most simple things murky. If what is said is true it shouldn’t be hard for someone(known shooter) to grab a few g36 rifles and fire a 3 short group, a 60rd dump followed by a three shot group. repeat the experiment with a few quality ar’s and a few scar’s to act as a control. optics used should be the same for all rifles.
there must by an SOT with all three rifles, a few hundred rounds of ammo and access to a 100yd range.
Crappy deal for HK I guess. I would like to see them come out of it unscathed, but who knows for sure. I really like their newer P30/VP9 pistols. Just a shame that their German contract G36’s aren’t cutting it. I’ve never even seen or handled a G36 variant at all the MG shoots I’ve been at.
Being a largely-polymer rifle I guess it makes sense there’s more flex than they might have anticipated when it gets hot? I’m no engineer, but we know HK has some smart people and could (if they admit there’s a problem in the first place, which is not a strong point of HK as I understand it) come up with a fix. It seems some of the German manufacturers, HK and regional, Glock, not known for their humility or admission of design flaws. It’s probably still more accurate hot than your average AK. :ph34r:
Given the political climate in Germany, and the fact that, apparently, the military hasn’t even consulted HK about the problem I wonder if it might be trumped-up. There have been people trying to destroy HK in Germany for years (Red/Green coalition types and their version of the late Frauline Brady). On the other hand, you would have to be really dumb to destroy all domestic military small arms production but we are talking about left-wing types here.
But there are plenty who are that dumb and even dumber. Lots of people living in sugar coated fairly lands who things everyone thinks like they do, or should, and that you can make people act in a particular way. Sadly the only way they will learn is the hard way, and it will cost lives, and likely not their own.
However, when H&K was trying to sell the US government the XM8, they were saying that per unit cost (with accessories) would be less than what the M4 cost, which I believe was something like $980 (under $1000 in any case).