H&K and Blackwater Split

General General Discussion
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http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3135177,00.html

ecurity | 19.02.2008
German Arms Firm Ends Blackwater Deal After TV Report
Plainclothes contractors working for Blackwater USA take part in a firefight in Iraq
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Heckler & Koch decided they didn’t want to be associated with Blackwater after all

Weapons manufacturer Heckler & Koch said it would end its relationship with Blackwater after German media reported that the controversial US-run military firm was using its guns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Blackwater, a private security company which has been contracted to protect high-profile US officials and foreign dignitaries in Iraq, had been using Heckler & Koch machine guns in both Iraq and Afghanistan, German broadcaster ARD’s “Report Mainz” program reported Monday, Feb. 19.

The German arms manufacturer contacted the program shortly before the report was aired on Monday night and said it would cut all its ties to the US firm, according to “Report Mainz.”

The German company on its Web site described its work with Blackwater as a “unique and strategic partnership” in which the two firms were cooperating to develop “special edition” firearms and offer training courses in the United States to use Heckler & Koch weapons.
A sign at the entrance to Blackwater USA, in Moyock, North Carolina Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The firms’ cooperation was meant to be about training courses in North Carolina
There was no mention of Iraq or Afghanistan, and the company reportedly denied it had developed a weapon for Blackwater, as reported by the TV program.

The German government had not given Heckler & Koch permission to provide Blackwater with firearms, “Report Mainz” said, referring to information it received from Germany’s Economics Ministry.

Exploiting a loophole?

Heckler & Koch would not provide the program with information as to how Blackwater got its weapons. However, it may have taken advantage of a loophole by merely transferring the firearms to its US subsidiary, which then handed over the wares, the report suggested.

Blackwater has been under intense scrutiny from the US Congress as a result of the high number of civilian deaths and injuries the company has caused in Iraq. The most controversial incident was in September, when Blackwater guards were said to have fatally shot 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad.

The company is neither subject to Iraqi law, nor governed by US military tribunals, which allows it to operate without fear of repercussions.

Politicians want oversight

“It is scandalous and unacceptable that a German arms company cooperates with such a lawless mercenary troop … although it must know that this firm is involved in illegal killings in Iraq,” Green party parliamentarian Hans Christian Ströbele told the program’s reporters.

The Social Democrats’ foreign policy spokesman, Gert Weisskirchen, called for legislation to prevent German firms from participating in the “privatization of war” and said that “such cooperation should be scrutinized.”

Free Democratic Party parliamentarian Werner Hoyer echoed those comments, saying that there was a gap in legislation that needed to be closed.

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I find such lectures from Germans somewhat ironic.

M_P

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Quick, someone grab a front end loader…that article is neck deep in it… :rolleyes:

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What a crock!

The 16 September incident occured while Blackwater was performing its duties as part of a Department of State contract. There are no HK weapons involved in this contract.

As specified by DoS they used the following weapons in the execution of that contract:
Colt M4
Glock 19
Remington 870
M249 SAW
M240

This is not a complete list of the weapons used, but it covers the bulk of them.

Sounds like HK needs a better fact checker.

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Delete my post, please.

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Because you suck and we hate you

–Please do not post that garbage here.–

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I have never owned any HK products… Now I will never own any HK products.

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well, on that note…does anyone wanna trade a springfield 1911 for a .45 USP-C ?

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Now that was entertaining to read, Blitzking! :smiley:

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Well, that pretty much sums it up.

On a side note though, there are quite a few SEALs that really like(d) the Mk 23, especially for dives and hide security. It was s real kick in the balls to remove those weapons from their hands without a replacement.

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For a long time I had (read past tense) a love for H&K based on a couple of articles and experience with my brothers USP’s. Yet somehow every time I bought a pistol( and there have been several) I always ended up with something else. Why, I always found something that worked as well for my needs and was cheaper or worked better. As I have learned about guns I have gradually fallen out of love with H&K but I still hate to see them have the attitude toward the american civillian market that they have. The rant above was by far the funniest thing I have read in a while.

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Gentleman, lets face the reality. Hk has a big contract going with several governments (Hk G36) and won’t give the pc crowd any chance to endanger this. Considering how fearful European politicians are, its no wonder that they will sacrifice a smaller contract. I am an avid Glock/Steyr owner, but have to applaud them that they will make the Hk 416 (MR223) available to the public if it passes ATF (the European market being too small to make enough profit). Hk wants to sell it to US civilians, no doubt here.

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Didnt know it was already posted… REMOVED

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This seems to me to be a strictly PR move.

The news program likely didn’t bother to report the fact that H&K and Blackwater’s relationship was primarily a TRAINING relationship. H&K dumped their training outfit and had Blackwater run the training that H&K used to do in house.

H&K wasn’t arming BW contractors in any significant numbers to the best of my knowledge.

H&K weapons are in use by large numbers of military and law enforcement agencies in the US and have been responsible for a number of deaths…but apparently none of that is objectionable. H&K weapons or licensed weapons are also in use by a number of repressive regimes all over the world, but again, that doesn’t seem to cause any great consternation.

Yet link H&K with a PMC company working under the supervision of the DOS, DOD, and other federal agencies, and suddenly there’s a problem.

:confused:

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HK seems to have problems getting along with anyone, Benelli, Fabarms, etc.

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Excellent post. HK is being very illogical.
We can’t confuse their opinions with the facts. :wink:

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I was giving some serious consideration to getting an H&K pistol.

I’m going to stop doing that now.

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If you were considering an H&K pistol, I’d encourage you to still consider it. H&K is a corporation and like any other corporation within it there are competing agendas, ideas, and styles.

The stuff they make is still very good, even if occasionally their management can’t refrain from drooling on their shoes.

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Yes, you are, of course, quite correct. In general, I purchase products I like, want or need, irrespective of this sort of thing.

I have at various times given thought to getting an H&K, possibly a P2000, but have never committed myself to the notion. I suppose if I really loved it, I would still get it … although that warning imprint on the bottom of the trigger guard does annoy me.

You’ve convinced me, however, not to write them off completely. Thanks.

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many good points have been made. I think this is HK wimping out to pressure from der Fatherland’s government of socialists and forest elves. That would explain the emotional knee-jerking and decided bias against facts about BW AND the large number of rusted HK rifles used to butt stroke peasants all over the world and the GPMG’s mounted on many a Nissan and Toyota pickup.

I think it would also explain why HK just learned about the BW shootout and was totally outraged :rolleyes: .