Agree with your points.
I think that if we saw a LARGE portion of Trust’s come back not approved, or we saw the ATF handing out fines, pulling tax stamps back (after they were given) or just denying Trust’s all together, the lawyer route would make a lot of sense. Since we don’t see any of the above, spending more than $200 on a lawyer to do what you can do for $60 just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
C4
Where the lawyer is useful, at least to me, is dispensation of the estate items in the case of your passing, etc. Yeah, I’m sure the $200 lawyer can help with that, but I’m quite satisfied with mine drafted to my particular circumstance. and he’s never billed me for a followup call or question since he drafted the trust.
People love to snipe at these things for some reason. “You got a trust? you’re a moron!” “you paid more for your trust than I did? You’re an idiot!”
The trust, and who someone uses to draft same, is as much about trust and peace of mind as it is anything else. If that takes $600 for one guy then that’s what it takes.
The LLC is superior to the trust in every way possible except if your state has high filing and high maintienace good standing fees.
That’s the point exactly. There must be an honest lawyer who is an M4c member, knows this topic, isn’t advertising his knowledge/services in this area, and who can shed some light on all this.
I guess the comparison has to be against an “NFA knowledgeable” lawyer doing trusts, and a “trust knowledgeable” Class 3 dealer helping buyers.
In Florida:
there is no NFA trust, you have a Revocable Living Trust or you don’t, that’s what the state recognizes.
forming a LLC cost $166.00, then there’s the $143.75 “Annual Report” fee. If you file your report after May 1 there’s a $400.00 “late” fee.
if you pay for a trust in the morning and it’s done that afternoon my opinion is you got a boilerplate product with your name and numbers installed, that my friend isn’t worth 600.00 no matter where you live.
Until someone can tell me what makes a “NFA” trust special then it’s just another sales tool. Until one is challenged and tested it’s just another document. IF it gives you 600.00 worth of “peace of mind” and that’s what you want, good for you, you got what you paid for.
Did I get a cut and paste document? I Sure did. Does that mean it is no good? Absolutely not. To think someone should pay an hourly rate for something like this is very short sighted. Professional schooling easily costs over a hundred fifty thousand dollars. When you go to a professional like a lawyer or Doctor off some kind you are paying for their education more than their time.
Sure, I could have split the cost with my brother and dad (who are also listed on the trust and thus can also put weapons on the trust), but sometimes a guy wants to do a nice thing. Merry effing Christmas. I feel confident I got a quality product and that the legal advice I am now entitled to will be equally as good. If I had looked up Joe Shmuckatelli neighborhood lawyer I would not be as confident. Lawyers specialize, just like MDs and they do it for a reason - there is a lot of crap to know and you can’t know it all. Would you go to a Podiatrist to have a root canal? No.
I appreciate those of you telling me I spent too much in that you are trying to point others in a direction you would advise, but I am happy with my decision and would not dissuade anyone from following the same route. Fact is, if you don’t have the money to spend on a good lawyer you should probably be putting the cost of an NFA weapon into something more important.
AAAh, the age old question aka Ah JEEze:big_boss:
Guys are just using “NFA Trust” as shorthand. Legally, they are talking about Living Trusts, whether revocable (recommended) or not.
This is true. The prices you pay for “professional” services are more, not because they are necessarily worth it, but because the have educational bills to pay, not to mention their mansions, Mercedes’, Porsches, etc.
I doubt anyone is really specializing in NFA Trusts. I assume they are adding it to their repertoire for additional income. I’m not saying they aren’t doing them properly, or that they shouldn’t get involved. I am saying they know it isn’t hard. They could possibly have even learned the correct lingo from, dare I say it, a Class III Dealer.
I don’t really have an intelligent response for that one.
I’m sure there are some who would never let a gunsmith work on his weapon of choice, unless he could show proof he had a degree in mechanical engineering. But even then, there would be no indication he was worth his salt working on a gun.
Everyone is still free in the U S of A to make his own choices, and if one feels good about the choice he made, then more power to him. Those who come close to disrespecting anyone else, for the choices they make, are not communicating in the best manner, and their words are better left unsaid.
Most on this site are current or ex-ilitary/police, industry professionals, or people heavy into the gun world. Let’s all have a good time and learn from one another.
I am active duty navy.
I wonder if the fine folks at Navy legal would do this for me.
anyone sailor can walk in and get a will, living will, and such for free. as well as have a lol-yer look at a lease or mortgage for any funny buisness.
seems like a simple trust would be small potatoes for them.
though since I am naming mine “the Fuse firearms trust” I wonder if that would raise some eyebrows. and then telling them “oh this is just to make buying suppressors simpler…”
believe it or not DoD is not exactly pro gun for its members…
I highly doubt the “Quicken loop-hole” will ever be closed…and even if it did, you would not be charged with a crime as you would have done this “act” before it was considered illegal.
Like stated before, if it wasn’t a viable means of obtaining an NFA item then the ATF would never accept it in the first place…
I understand wanting “just that much more” peace of mind, but just loosen the tin-foil hat in the process fellas.
If they do Living Trusts, then an “NFA” trust would just be a slightly modified version. Have them do both for you. One for the NFA stuff and one for everything else. Trusts trump wills in many ways.
The difference would be in the schedule for “shared property placed in Trust”. That’s were the info. about NFA weapons is spelled out.
I may check it out then.
I have obtained quicken willmaker, but seems like it would be awesome having an actual lawyer do it for free. if not, quicken for me.
also, all I really need for them is the serial number of the can, right? because I just got that the other day 
That’s a good idea Fuse. I’ve been thinking going the trust route to a) protect my parents as the rifle(s) would be kept at their house and b) be able to register it while not actually in the country (I think that’s possible, right?) Seeing as I have no idea how to do legal documents, it would be nice to get some help when making a trust and free is good.
Use those legal people for everything you can while you are in. They can do it without serial numbers, or any specific info. on the weapon. You can add an addendum to the trust, listing the weapon specifically,once you have your NFA paperwork, and modify it with each new purchase or sale.
I did my trust through David Goldman (Guntrustlawyer.com). Got it for $500, he was running a “special.” While I wasn’t too thrilled with dropping that much money I like having the peace of mind that it’s all squared away and he basically “warranties” the trust if some crap happens like in this scenario: http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/4/20/batfe-approves-u-invalid-u-trust
You never know when the government is going to pull some crap, especially under the current regime.
As far as it being a “Gun Trust,” like someone said earlier, it’s a Revocable Trust, there’s no such thing as a “Gun Trust.” The difference is that the trust through Goldman and his affiliates throughout the country has specific NFA language throughout it that assures the assets (firearms) are handled properly in case of your death or incapacitation.
If you can find another attorney to do it for cheaper, go for it.
One thing I wouldn’t do would be getting a trust done up through a gun store. There are many gun stores throughout the country doing this and it’s a dumb idea. I was offered this from the store I buy all of my AR stuff from, for around 50 bucs. I almost did it, hell of a price. But they use Quicken Willmaker, so If I was going to do that, I would just buy the damn program. First of all it’s technically illegal for them to offer legal services (practice law) without a license. Secondly, they would only put one trustee and said I would have to have one added later by a lawyer, so why not go through an attorney in the first place.
I felt like $500 was worth it. I know that my family, career, and firearms are protected.
I almost went the CLEO/Fingerprint route, but then the government can come get my guns if something happens to me. Yeah I’ll be dead, but screw them, they aren’t taking my guns.
My overall opinion is that it’s friggin retarded that I need to register a rifle that is 4.5 or 5.5 inches shorter than one I don’t have to register, especially when I don’t have to register an AR pistol that accomplishes the same goal just without a stock and is shorter. But I’m preaching to the choir.
Can someone who has had a trust drawn up in Florida recommend a lawyer other then guntrustlawyer.com?
not all trusts are equal, and some are completely unacceptable “legally” I am told when it comes to NFA.
the $600 is CHEAP insurance for something done right.
would you trust your Ferrari to the corner gas station mechanic?
sure he may do great work on Buick and Fords and if that’s good enough for you, then I guess that’s all that matters.
I think an attorney doing trusts can do a firearms trust quite easily. I don’t see the comparison between a Ford/Buick mechanic and a Ferrari mechanic?
PM me for info, I highly recommend Bob Howell and he’s cheaper than gun trust lawyer.
…David Goldman as well.
Actually, he, myself AND my brother in law are all co-trustees.
yeah, you can use Quicken; however, guess what happens when you die and your daughter, grandson, friend, etc. inherets the weapon and the trust wasn’t designed specifically for NFA items?
they’re most likely going to be in possession of said item illegally.
for the here and now, everthing’s fine and dandy. when you’re dead, it’s not.