So I am new to this site; found it while researching a newly purchased firearm.
I bought an SAR-3 w/the sporter thumbhole stock recently. It came in the original box, with the original plastic on it, the original paperwork (including serial number), a 20 round box of ammo that looks to be from when it was made, and several original magazines. It does not appear to have ever been fired.
My first question is regarding the best place to find accurate and current value for it. I see prices from several years ago online, but nothing current. I don’t think I’ll sell it right away, but I am curious to figure out its current worth.
Second, since it does not appear to ever have been fired, how would firing it affect its value (percentage-wise)?
Third, can anyone who has personally done it offer feedback on the benefits of using a Trijicon sight system vs. the old claw and fixed power scope? This is mainly to be used as a medium power 35-150 yd suppressive fire weapon (in case a herd of large deer or elk decide to attack…). Anything under 35 yds will be covered by my HK USP 45 or Glock .357 SIG, anything further will be covered by my FN PBR .300 WSM.
I am debating between setting this up as my medium range gun and selling it/purchasing more of an AR setup.
I am working out of town for the next few days, but I can post pics when I return.
Mark,
Not sure if you realize that those rifles have an interesting history - originally, they were marked as G3’s and were in imported in 1988 SN range is 05000-05499 (@ 500 imported). I had a G3: SN 052xx)
Markings are as follows:
SN @ 05000-05199 (left receiver- SN; right receiver- G3 7.62MM/SPRINGFIELD ARMORY USA/GENESEO, IL- no “MADE IN GREECE”)
SN @ 05200-05499 (left receiver- SN; right receiver- G3 7.62MM/SPRINGFIELD ARMORY USA/GENESEO, IL/MADE IN GREECE)
So…original Springfield Armor clones were marked as G3, these were pre-89 guns. As above - only 500 came in the US.
The SAR 3 were still pre-89 guns and identical to the G3’s, but were the result of HK filing a law suit against SA over “G3” nomenclature. Once the’89 ban went into effect, the remaining SAR 3 got an 8 over-stamp - which makes them a post-89 rifle.
The SAR 8/3 (post-89) hold a unique and a bit of a controversial place in the story - The SAR 3/8 was imported as a Pre-Ban. They were held in customs while the bill was in congress. They were purposely detained by the government. They sat in customs for months. They were finally were allowed to be imported after the ban, about May 1989. But the ban went into affect November 30 1990. So if you put the banned items back on the rifle before that Nov 30 1990 date they were in a legally configured Pre Ban configuration.
These rifles were imported and in the US before the ban. They were in the US in a pre ban configuration before the ban. But our government disallowed them to be imported into the US unless they had a different name. Therefore the SAR3 was over stamped to an 8. If I am not mistaken - a small number of those SAR8/3 guns had thumbhole stocks on them AND the original G3 style buttstocks in the box.
I just sold a G3 at auction (Nov 13) for about $2200 - it had some goodies with it.
Value on your is probably in the $1000 - $1200 range.
@mistwolf,
Thanks for the tip. His posting on here was the reason I joined the site. Fortunately I have been looking through the site more and am finding LOTS of cool things I would have missed otherwise.
@opsoff1,
I was aware of the history, having read SteyrAUG’s “so you want to buy a G3” post from several years ago. Thank you for the info though. Your estimated valuation seems low to me since there were so few made, and this appears to be NIB. I know four or five years ago that was the going price, but it seems to have gone up from there since that time. Maybe I’m wrong, that’s why I want to check with others here.
I PM’d SteyrAUG and hopefully he will be able to shed more light on it.
@mistwolf,
Thanks for the tip. His posting on here was the reason I joined the site. Fortunately I have been looking through the site more and am finding LOTS of cool things I would have missed otherwise.
@opsoff1,
I was aware of the history, having read SteyrAUG’s “so you want to buy a G3” post from several years ago. Thank you for the info though. Your estimated valuation seems low to me since there were so few made, and this appears to be NIB. I know four or five years ago that was the going price, but it seems to have gone up from there since that time. Maybe I’m wrong, that’s why I want to check with others here.
I PM’d SteyrAUG and hopefully he will be able to shed more light on it.
Ok, first things first. There is no such thing as a SAR 3 with a sporter thumbhole stock, they all had standard HK style buttstocks. Sar 8s exist in standard stock and thumbhole stock configurations and there is also a Sar 3/8 overstamp transition rifle. So I really can’t even begin to start helping you without pictures of what we are actually dealing with.
Sorry I didn’t clarify in the post. As listed in the title, it is an SAR-3 w/ 8 overstamp. I am attaching some pics for clarification. Thanks for your help.
**I could only upload the first two pics before the rest of them stopped uploading. The right side shows the overstamp clearly, the left looks like a regular 8 as you can see. I’ll keep trying…never had this problem before.
It’s not an HK and so not collectable. However, it is a nice rifle of utility that with new stocks, etc, would be more interesting to a buyer. Springfield has no customer service for these so scour for parts you may need.
I’m unsure of why you posted this in precision rifle, it is certainly not in that category. It is the 1st rifle I purchased, as an adult, as it was far cheaper than name brand offerings.
PTR makes some nice HK91 type rifles on older HK machinery, but they put an integral picatinny mount and have different barrel/forend length offerings. So I guess that would be the competition. Value is what it will bring. Gunsamerica/gunbroker may lead a clue.
Ahh gotcha. Hard to place an established value on something like this because it is a combination of an HK contract rifle which doesn’t have the pedigree of HK but is in demand by HK shooters because they “used” to be an affordable alternative. Add in the economy and it’s hard to state what it is worth definitively.
You could determine it’s current market value by starting a $1 auction on Gunbroker but even there prices paid might be different over a period of three months. As a general rule these are worth about 65-70% of an HK91 in the same condition. However, HK collectors sometimes collect contract rifles and even post ban sporter versions which will drive prices. The HK 911 for example will actually cost more than a preban HK91 because so few exist and collectors are seeking to have complete collections. And this same factor sometimes pushes rifles like Greek contracts to within 80% of the price of a comparable HK91.
The “doesn’t appear to be fired” means nothing more than excellent condition. If you don’t have all the indicators of NIB complete with factory box, all accessories and cardboard barrel string you have a rifle in excellent condition and nothing more. And technically all HKs have been fired, they were test fired several times at the factory and a target is included.
I don’t have any experience with the Trijicon sight system so can’t offer any opinion there.
All the Hellenic “G3” marked rifles, with and without the “Made in Greece” were marked with a country of origin mark under the barrel, just in front of the sight tower. It’s says “EBO Athens Greece”. I bet the ATF and/or customs didn’t like the original markings, because it’s so damn small. They made Springfield make the marking bigger somewhere else (Magwell). Seriously, the marking is the width of a cunt hair… I couldn’t even see it, until I got the Macro Lens out.
While I appreciate your feedback, I don’t think this statement would hold up. That’s like saying an old Porsche isn’t collectable because its not a Ferrari. I realize a different market would be interested in it as opposed to a traditional HK, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t unique and collectable. I know that it is a better unit than a PTR version, but I agree that value is what it would bring.
I don’t know what I’m going to do with it yet like I said in the post, I just don’t want to change it and ruin one of the few remaining originals just so I could play with it more.
Thanks for your feedback and recommendations about Gun Broker.
Did you ever try a Trijicon setup on your old one? I really am curious what people have found their experience to be with it.
Thanks for the info. I appreciate the lead on Gunbroker and percentages; it helps me get a better feel.
I have the factory box, all accessories, but no cardboard barrel string or factory target. The bolt face still has the wax/grease that it was first wrapped in though. The magazines still have the original grease too. I realize the factory did a few test-fires, just that it does not appear to have been fired other than that. Any idea where I can find how many of these might still be in circulation unmolested? I know most guys bought these to modify and make into a (relatively) cheaper HK.
I have a PM in to the mods and hopefully can upload some more pic porn for everybody soon.
What has been your experience with accuracy on guns like this? Obviously it isn’t as accurate as a bolt, just seeing how it may do in my original post scenario…really gotta watch those marauding deer herds up here
It can be exceedingly hard to prove NIB unfired for a given firearm. “Seems to be” and “looks like” just really aren’t enough to qualify anything. I’ve seen a lot of firearms that were “probably” unfired and NIB but you really have to be able to prove it.
I wouldn’t begin to know where to find out how many of these are out there unmodified. Keep in mind that swapping stocks back and forth really doesn’t change anything so long as you retain the original furniture. It’s no different than field stripping the rifle.
They are at best a 2MOA rifle. I know the internet is full of exceptional marksmen who regularly shoot pennies at 500 yards but it’s still at best a 2MOA rifle. But they really aren’t famous for being more accurate than an AR or more reliable than an AK, they are sorta a best of both worlds with reasonable accuracy and reliability.
While DMR versions such as the G3SG1 exist those were a bit more than a standard G3 with a set trigger pack. Even though receivers weren’t reinforced like the MSG90 or PSG1, SG1 rifles were built from the start with accuracy in mind. And even the SG1 series is barely a 1MOA rifle. Only the PSG1 is capable of reliably and repeatedly shooting 1MOA.
That said, I’ve gotten some pleasing results from my 91s and contract .308 rifles even if I can’t quite shoot pennies at 500 yards.
I’m not sure if it’s as bad as a DPMS. While they are using FMP tooling they aren’t making them quite to HK spec. I don’t have the exact details but I’m pretty sure even the GI barrel models aren’t CHF so it’s still not quite a true contract rifle. But I’m not sure I’d completely put them in the clone category either.
What I’ve done in the past to determine value of something that interests me is use completed auctions in Gunbroker - you have to have an account there - for a representative period where there wasn’t a lot of panic buying (last six months). I think the market is deflated right now.
Another factor to consider is that while it doesn’t have the German HK cachet, they are imported licensed copies from a military arsenal (the others being INDEP/FMP and more recently Turkey/MKE and Pakistan/POF). Importation is limited, so if demand increases at some point…
Anyway they are solid rifles - came close to buying an FMP a couple of times.
