A buddy and I were hunting varmit and cougar up on some local land Sunday. We had almost made it back to the truck when we were rolled by the Game Warden. I was told we were criminal trespassing on private property but since the land was recently sold there were no signs posted. The officer said he would give us a break and let us off that ticket.
Then he proceeded to nail me for having a 20rnd mag in while possibly hunting cougar. I explained I have a 5rnd mag in my pocket with 69gr soft point in case we come across a cougar and the 20rnd with 55gr FMJ in the gun are for varmit use. I ran this by the ODFW previously and they said just have a 5rnd mag available in case I come across a cougar while coyote hunting. So he let me off that ticket also, but barely.
So it seems we were good to go and the guy just had to write a ticket. He wasn’t happy unless I was punished to some extent. So he gave me a $97 ticket for not having fire equipment in my truck. I guess I had passed a sign down the road that said fire gear is mandatory even though I had never seen or heard of such a thing.
It was nice to not get criminal trespassing and to keep our guns but I could have went without the fire equipment ticket :rolleyes: Why do cops insist on giving a ticket? Is it against the code to completely let someone go or what?
All sorts of people are attracte to positions of power; some decent, some not and a large percentage are eventually corrupted by the power that they seek. This is true of all of mankind all over the planet. I despise it.
Without a written letter, on their department letterhead, your “…they said it was Ok to carry this 20rd mag…” could end you up forfeiting guns, and other property if the law provides for it.
Also, if the land wasn’t public, and you didn’t have written permission to be there, why were you there? Almost every state I’ve hunted has a provision for landowner “permission”. Without it, you are asking for trouble – and sometimes finding it. Many states will allow for verbal, but many state it should be written exclusively.
Lastly, the fire equipment ticket is some bullshit, but I guess legal to require in your area.
As outdoorsmen, we need to know these things, and be setting the example. Otherwise, we get categorized as “ignorant hunters”, “stupid rednecks”, etc.
I had an old acquaintance who was a GW. He did all sorts of idiotic things to catch people (mostly ordinary hunters) including wearing full camo in the woods during Elk season!!! He may have been shot by now or may have gotten wiser, I hope!
Exactly. When I was given permission to hunt on some private property in Mass. near a State Park I made damn sure my father got me permission on the company’s letterhead. I also made damn sure that the police knew what was up in case someone called them up saying a guy in truck parked on their street and has a gun!
Stopped a lot of headaches because when I went back the next year they told me they DID get a couple of calls about it but didn’t want to interrupt me during hunting season.
Well, when Obama becomes president we have an agreement that he’ll appoint me Benevolent Dictator. I’ll then offer you some power to distribute to the proles.
Game wardens are NOT cops, they are game wardens. They write us (cops) tickets too sometimes. “Why do cops insist on giving a ticket?” That is a blanket statement that is not fair to officers or other game wardens for that matter. I realize that you are frustrated by that incident, and I don’t blame you. It would pi$$ me off too. A good friend of mine (an officer) got an expensive citation from a game warden last year for accidentally trespassing on private land while deer hunting.
I think he did let you off. You got two warnings and a cheezy equipment fine. I bet the fire equipment fine is the lowest fine of the three offenses and it’s not a criminal charge like tresspassing. You can always go to court on the court date and tell the judge you didn’t know you needed fire equipment while you were hunting on someone elses property without permission. Good luck with that. David
Game wardens, at least in Ohio, have extra-Constitutional powers that no police officer will ever get.
Entering private property without PC or warrant
Seizure of property without arrest or charge
“Evidence” taken under the first two has been used in criminal cases not involving the ODNR, but I think they finally appealed that one through and got the case squashed.
Oh cry me a freaking river!! :rolleyes: Power has nothing to do with it. By your own admission, you and your buddy had broken at least three laws. If that Warden was really on a power-trip, he would have written you up for all three. If you had permission to hunt on that land, you should have obtained a letter from the landowner.
Instead, you only received a citation for the least “criminal” of these. Ignorance of the rules do not shield anyone from prosecution. As a Varminter (Coyote) and someone who also help the Game Warden enforce laws during Deer season, I know enough to only hunt with two or three 5-round magazines so that there was no chance that I could be charged with poaching. Think about this, did you really need a 20-round magazine to hunt Coyotes? Could you have done just as well with multiple 5-round magazines?
I don’t even know why you’re whining about this. You got off pretty easy in my book. If you only knew just how much poachers are ruining this sport and our environment you’d understand why the Game Warden came down on you (although pretty softly). JM2CW.
thanks for ‘not being a prick’ about it… :rolleyes:
I am aware I was let off, thanks for the reminder. I am aware I was tresspassing too, but not from the beginning. This land was next to some BLM that I used to hunt with no problems. And as far as the 20rnd mag goes, I enjoy exercising the rights I have. If I have the right to carry 20rnd+ mags then I will. The ODFW told me this was okay and I made a valiant effort to inquire the issue first. If I run into a pack of yotes I may need more than 5rnds…
The fire equip ticket was the lesser charge of the 3 and that is why I got it. I am thankful for that, I guess. I just know that if I were the Game Warden in that situation I would have let us off, given our demeanor and the circumstances.
If land is not posted 'Private" how would you know who to call?
My solution to this problem is to get the BLM maps and stick to them… I guess I should keep a Shovel, Axe, and a gallon of water in my truck for now on too
Let me be very clear, “they told me” will not cut it if you get a ticket and the person who says “they told you” does not show up to also “tell it to the judge”.
Therefore there are only two options in my mind:
You have a written letter of advice/permission from the department in charge of hunting stating that you can do what “you were told”.
Carry the lowest capacity mag that will conform to the laws governing each and all the types of hunting you are doing.
If land is not posted 'Private" how would you know who to call?
Land rights are pretty serious in most places in the country. You run a serious risk of being shot for trespassing with a firearm in a lot of places.
If you are unsure of where you are, or whose land it is, it’s probably best to stay out. Maybe the land owner doesn’t want calls. Maybe the land owner hates hunters. Whatever the case may be, my rule of thumb is to stay out of land that isn’t mine, or I do not have written permission to be on.
However, the few times I’ve gone on BLM or public land, I have the boundary coordinates in the Garmin to know where I am at all times. Though with all the idiots running around, I don’t hunt public land unless it’s sparsely populated and the only option.
I’d hate to get shot because I went on someone’s land, by accident, with a gun. :mad:
trust me, I learned my lesson. This was a close call. I’m lucky to have my gun still.
Here is my dilema, I want to carry 20 or 30rnd mags for varmit/coyote hunting as that is completely legal. What if I call in a cougar instead?
Why do I need more than 5rnd capacity? Varmit hunters tend to shoot alot. I’ve had plenty of instances where I’ve shot more than 5 times consecutively. If there are 4 or 5 coyotes in a pack and on the move I would like to have a chance at taking all of them out. Sage rats and prairie dogs keep me busy all day and using a 5rnd mag then would be ridiculous. Rabbits on the run will sometimes require a few more shots than normal. Could I make it with a few 5rnd mags? yeah probably, but it’s annoying and in my opinion somewhat violating.
I am going to call the local game warden about this today and will report here.
Sounds to me like some of the replies on here, should be the Judge for all NBA refs. HAMMER DOWN, with hydraulic force.
In some states the citizen would need to take a Lawyer along to make sure you KNOW and can abide by ALL the laws your state may have. Hell, who knows, there might be a law against a human defecating on the ground! Sorry, Wildlife only!
In Montana, you put red/orange paint on top of your fence post, or on square wood attached to a tree, every X number of feet. Then you know it means no trespassing, and stays there for quite some time. All the locals know this and a lot of “OUT of Staters” too. I think, it is up to the landowner to press charges. (Haven’t asked a Lawyer yet)
I got ahold of a local Fish and Wildlife Officer and I gotta say I didn’t really get a straight answer. He said “I would use multiple 5rnd mags instead of carrying any hi-cap mags” but he also said it was not illegal unless I was pursuing that animal primarily. So If I am primarily pursuing coyote and come across a cougar technically I can put in my 5rnd mag and shoot it. But If a game warden see’s me packing a cougar out and I have a hi-cap mag in possesion I could be in trouble. It sounds like the rules aren’t black and white on this. For now on, If I hunt where cougars reside I will be using a 5rnd mag period. Sucks, but I gotta do it.
Now what if I am hunting coyote and the GW see’s I have a cougar tag. I wonder if he will accuse me of cougar hunting just for having a tag? Why do these stifflers always want to make this hard?
on another note, he told me alot of people are having luck hunting cougar with ‘cougar in-heat’ calls.
My advice, go to court and argue the fact. In my area, the DNR is favored well in court because of some of the stupid things they have cited people for. There is an unspoken rule of, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours between cops and the DNR. This been stepped on many times with Wardons writting Cops tickets and Judges know this. Most times, just by you showing up to court they Judge will lessen the fine.
I have been busting yotes in my neck of the woods for years, and if there are mag restrictions on the books, for your own sake abide by them.
Best advise,
You can’t argue with them on the side of the road and win; your only hope is to win in court. Don’t say a word to the Wardon other than being respectful, even if he is in the wrong. Just grin and bear it then go to court and have your day. That is how the game is played, like it or not.
Most times, just by you showing up to court they Judge will lessen the fine.
Exactly what a Judge told me in my younger years.
I have been busting yotes in my neck of the woods for years, and if there are mag restrictions on the books, for your own sake abide by them.
+1
Best advise,
You can’t argue with them on the side of the road and win; your only hope is to win in court. Don’t say a word to the Wardon other than being respectful, even if he is in the wrong. Just grin and bear it then go to court and have your day. That is how the game is played, like it or not.
