Good barrier blind load that is safe for the M1A?

[200RNL]

@BullittBoy

I was merely trying to let the OP know that a lot of M80 7.62 rounds will do the job better than 5.56 or 6.8 simply due to the power of the cartridge and he is not going to be “under gunned” by using it.

I know what you’re saying there. I have done similar things with old vehicles. I even had an old, full size school bus to experiment on. I discovered that once a bullet starts to destabilize, as it travels through multiple layers of sheet metal, it starts to break apart. The larger calibers fragmented less and penetrated more than the smaller calibers. Some 5.56 bullets almost vaporized, spraying interior compartments with tiny fragments and lead dust.

M80 Ball does well as does M2 Ball. M2 AP does best, but even the hardened penetrator can break into sections when it destabilizes while traveling through layers of sheet metal and various interior structures.

[sinister]

It’s a 7.62 – how thick does the barrier have to fricking be?

[Jake_sDad]

Testing in barriers isn’t only about simple penetration, but also about the projectile’s performance after passing through them.

And while firing various cartridges at various random and unknown materials, at random angles, with no medium behind them to measure terminal and post penetration accuracy performance, can certainly be interesting and entertaining, it’s unwise to form sweeping opinions based on it.

[kenndapp]

@kenndapp

Doc, i have read your LE .308 duty thread more than a few times and i am still having trouble understanding. i understand that the sp ammo does much better through barriers than the 155g amax, and i understand that the 155g amax does much better than smk’s through barriers (which i understand isn’t hard to accomplish) but, what happens to an amax through a vehicle door, window, or house door? is the projectile coming through the other side of the obstruction in tiny little ineffective fragments? is it completely ineffective or does it just perform inconstantly? what exactly happens?

Sorry to double up here doc but, I realy need to understand this. Just wanted to make sure you didn’t miss this.

[Jack-O]

kendapp,
the AMAX breaks up and fragments into small enough pieces that they have a limited and unpredictable ability to penetrate flesh enough to cause grevious or mortal wounds.

barrier blind is as much about predictability as penetration. this is why bonded or monolithic projectiles are preferred for thier predictability thru glass (especially).

of course something that gets forgotten is that quantity has a quality all it’s own.

[kenndapp]

In other words…put 6 or 7 rounds through the glass and don’t sweat the details?

[Jake_sDad]

@kenndapp

In other words…put 6 or 7 rounds through the glass and don’t sweat the details?

Quantity doesn’t always trump quality.

[gamewarden]

So if ones only patrol rifle was a US Gov’t M14 would the 155 grain AMAX be a good round for general LE work? Or would our current issued Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (P308F)work better? We are kind of limited to Federal, its in state…but have had AMAX in the past.

thanks for the help!

[Jake_sDad]

In your line of work, I’d think you would want something with good penetration and good barrier performance. Have you looked at Doc’s thread on .308?

The Speer Gold Dot is made by the same corporation as Federal if that counts. California F&G uses it in their M14’s and M1a’s, iirc.

[kenndapp]

Has any one looked into hornady tap 168g barrier? It uses a hornady interbond plastic tip bullet. Hornadys site info looks impressive and I read on some forum a while back that stated it was impressive on elk so it must to okay in soft target unobstructed shots. Yet I don’t ever see it metioned in the tactical community nor is mentioned in doc’s .308 recomendations. At $25 or less per box it seems to get my attention when I run accross it for a general purpose round for my m14 but its lack of popularity make me raise an eyebrow. It this stuff snake oil?

[DocGKR]

gamewarden–The AMAX and BT offer relatively similar good soft tissue terminal performance. Neither is optimal for barriers.

[gamewarden]

Thanks for the help. I will see what direction we want to go and maybe look at some partition rounds. I will let our division know about the Speer Gold Dot round. I guess its hard to find a round that you can use indoors, shoot through brush, but at the same time use effectively through a vehicle or similar barrier. My education continues…

The LE .308 round thread was a great read!

[DocGKR]

If your agency needs additional assistance, please contact me offline.

[gamewarden]

Doc-

PM sent with work e-mail.

[BufordTJustice]

@gamewarden

So if ones only patrol rifle was a US Gov’t M14 would the 155 grain AMAX be a good round for general LE work? Or would our current issued Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (P308F)work better? We are kind of limited to Federal, its in state…but have had AMAX in the past.

thanks for the help!

My agency currently is in contract with ATK (Federal and Speer).

The Federal 150gr .308 Fusion bonded hunting JSP is generally of similar construction to the Speer Gold Dot. They are made in the same manner and would perform similarly. As always, Doc has the final word on this.