Im taking a Tigerswan Pistol course this weekend here in Pittsburgh. Of course Im pretty excited about it
Talking to a buddy of mine who is also taking it he asked me if I wanted to hit the range with him sometime this week to prepare.
NO.
In fact Im not shooting for a full week prior to the class, and I like it that way. I try to tone it down before class (carbine last weekend and only ~50 round psitol when I normally do 150-200/week pistol ) and then go in totally cold.
My focus is on learning, going in like a blank slate and an honest performance level and being able to soak up as much as I can.
In my mind I practice before a match, not a class. And there is a big difference.
Ive also come to resent the general vibe of âdont be that guyâ that is around the internet and the plethora of guys willing to help you free up your bank account from all that pesky money in order to alleviate the insecurity and fear instilled in being a n00b in a class.
To be clear , Im NOT coming down against getting appropriate instoductory training so as to have a foundation on which to build, not am I saying guys should be jumping ahead before they are ready.
But more onto my topic I get a feeling a lot of times like guys are looking to compete at the class. As if they are going in not to learn but to prove what they already know.
Of course I cant read minds, and maybe Im way off base. I know I have gone into classes worked up about my performance and wanting to prove myslef to the guys there. OTOH the best experiances I have had where going in blank, humble, and cold and not worrying about how I stack up or how I âperformâ but rather just focused on taking in as much as I can and trying out new things or refining skills. Going in cold helps me go in with that mindset.
While I donât think I would want to go into a class cold, I completely concur about classes often turning into giant dick swinging sessions, with learning happening only if one looks cool.
Man, no offense, but thatâs a rambling mess. To your point, at least what I think your point is, Iâve gone into training cold and warmed-up and I dontât know if that makes much of a difference honestly. Youâre gonna warm-up in the first 50 rounds or so anyway.
And the whole donât be that guy has more to do with uprepaired or unsafe guys. I think your issues may be more personality based.
Iâm not trying to be mean but I think a lot of your perceptions may be in your head. Again, I am not trying to be mean. Maybe Iâm just too dumb to understand what you are saying so it seems like a rambling rant to me. Set me straight if Iâm just being dense.
no offense taken. perhaps I do ramble some, and perhaps it is all in fact just in my head (as I stated).
To distill the topic then maybe it should read âDo you prepare for class? why ?â and further âDoes anyone else like to go into a class cold? why?â
Anytime I put myself through a âstandardâs testâ at the range, I try to run the test cold. This gives me an indication of my baseline skills.
Regarding classes, though, especially a class that I am repeating, I actually try to practice, rehearse, the appropriate skills prior to attending. Doing so allows me to know what particular skills I need to focus on and seek further input on during the class.
I practice and take courses to enhance and refine my skills. I take âstandardâs testsâ cold to get on objective reading of my skills as they currently stand.
âThat Guyâ is sometimes the dude who is tacâed out but canât hit a full size silhouette
âThat Guyâ is sometimes the guy that is constantly shooting seven rounds on a five round drill.
âThat Guyâ is sometimes the guy who is told that rounds must be shot while moving, but he stops moving to shoot, then starts moving again.
âThat Guyâ is sometimes the guy who consistently forgets to fully seat his mags and full mags self-eject consistently, all day.
âThat Guyâ is sometimes the guy who flags people with his muzzle.
I find that going in to a class very rusty, often stands in the way of my learning. I am concentrating on unfucking my shooting, instead of the evolution weâre working.
Correct me if Iâm wrong, but I think the OPâs point of âgoing in to class coldâ was meant more to go into it humble and ready to actually learn â instead of going in with more of a âshow the other guys what I can do and how cool my gear isâ mentality.
If thatâs the case, then I completely agree. I have been to more than one pistol and carbine class where there is at least one person who tries to teach the instructor a thing or two during the class. Instead of just soaking up everything the instructor is teaching, these people will often argue about form and other things, and have attitudes like they already know everything. I sometimes wonder why they even attend classes if theyâre not there to learn.
I think itâs good to go into classes with an open mind and mentality. Learn and try everything the instructor is teaching, and then after the class you can decide what you want to apply.
Sounds like a good idea in theory but in practice itâs sub optimal.
Looking cool isnât really the point but if youâre testing your methods and techniques you need to have them mastered to determine whether itâs you or the technique/gear.
Similarly nothing sucks worse in a high-paced class when youâre trying to learn something new (never mind a large volume new material) while simultaneously unfucking something else.
The idea that youâre avoiding bad habits is similarly flawed. If that were the case there is no point to practicing at all.
BTW, if you pay your money, like everyone else, you can certainly go in to a class jocked up, and burning down every evolution with fastest splits and times. If thatâs what you are there to do, learn, improve â more power to you.
Generally, Iâm focused on what I am trying to learn, and not that the other guy beat my time in a certain drill.
One recent exception on a speed drill. 5 shots in the A-zone from low ready. I was shooting pretty fast, 1.0xâs and 1.1xâs, but one particular shooter was sub-1 second, (.99, .98, .97) and it made me notice.
I agree with this completely. I canât tell you how many times Iâve been to a class where the guy is paying more attention to what Iâm doing than to what heâs doing and giving me pointers along the way or otherwise telling me what Iâm doing wrong, when Iâm looking at him drop shots and do other stupid shit.
If the point of warming up in class is to look cool and be the top shooter, youâre doing yourself a disservice. If youâre that good perhaps you need to be going to a higher level class.
That said, like any other class you might go to (college, grad school or whatever), you come to class prepared for the lesson because coming to class unprepared is a recipe for failure. You learn more by having taken some time to prepare. Do your homework! Duh.
Being unprepared for its own sake because you somehow think youâl learn more is goofball. That doesnât mean you have to spend many hours days or days on the range in preparation or take a pre-class class but youâd do well to go shooting with a competent buddy for an afternoon, make sure your gear is squared away and reacquaint yourself with techniques and positions you havenât practiced in a while.
Iâve never regretted prepping for a class.
Iâve far more frequently regretted being unprepared. I wonât go there again.
I do prepare for classes. By that I mean that I have all the kit necessary for the class sorted out and broken in. I make sure that I have all of the little extras such as water, sun screen, ifak, etcâŚ
I think it is important to get some range time before a class if youâve added to or changed your kit at all. For example, if I have a new plate carrier, I want to run it at the range and through my house before I run it through a shoothouse class. This is to ensure that my gear is not snagging, catching, etc⌠I would rather make adjustments prior to the class. The same thing applies for new holsters, flashlights, boots, newly positioned pouches, etcâŚ
If my gear is already sorted, I donât see a need to go to the range to prepare for a class. It canât hurt but if you maintain your skills regularly, you are gonna be warmed up in a couple dozen rounds of shooting during the class anyway.
At home, I do believe in shooting cold to gauge my everyday preparedness. At the range I usually set up a couple of drills to run cold to see where I stand. I also get cold an warm par times for those drills so I can keep track of my progress.
I do agree with you about people who come to class and âknow everything.â Canât stand them, they are obviously not there to learn, just to stroke their own fragile egos. And those guys are usually âthat guy.â
I always attend a class cold. I never practice prior and I could care less if someone is better than me. I go to learn, compete against myself and completely ignore the âtoolsâ in the course.
I donât get the whole âhave a class next weekend, need to go to the range and prepareâ either, and in general Iâve always taken it to be more about not embarrassing oneself too. But to each their own. As long as they donât hold up the class and donât shoot me, I really donât care what anyone else at the class is doing.
As to being competitive at class, for some of us competing with friends or against someone youâve identified as a top shooter is a good driver. I shoot best at classes when I have someone chasing me.
I just recently took a class with jakjakman, whoâs a member here, at a magpul dynamics carbine 1 class I hosted. I wasnât taking the whole class, but 60 percent hosting, 40 percent getting practice in.
Advanced classes are just the fundamentals executed perfectly. So I see tremendous value shooting even a Carbine 1 class if it reinforces my fundamentals.
Back to the point of jakjak. Heâs a great shooter, in great physical shape, and took top shooter during a recent EAG class. This meant that keeping up with him was a great motivator. I identified that he was the benchmark I had to meet or exceed, and that was a stressor or how I shot.
Before classes I like to get out to the range and practice my fundamentals. As I said the biggest difference between a level 1 class or a level 2, is that fundamentals at that point are EXPECTED. So I see no issue going to the range to work on those so that youâre absorbing the material rather than playing catch up.
I understand exactly what you guys are saying about competing in class, and agree. Ive had great times in courses with friends (old or newly made) pushing each other.
My post wasnt too clear, I get that, and some of the content was superflous, but it seems a few guys understand what Im talking about.
Its not a gripe, or a big deal, or a put down or pat on the back for anyone. Just really want to talk about the whole âprepare for classâ thing and see what others do, and if anyone sees it like I do. Seems a few do.
And to a further point its not about preparing gear, I do that to. Confirm zero before a carbine class, check any class specific gear, ect. More of what I meant was the notion that âI know Instructor X likes to run elâ pres (or âthe testâ or FAST, whatever) so I better drill that before I go to class.â
And more so going in cold helps ME deal better with going in with a ready to learn state. Ive learned that about myself after taking several courses, and I always absorb more when I go in with an âempty cupâ.
I absolutely prep for my classes. I donât jack up my round counts 10 -fold. I do make sure I get to the range a few times before the class and that I do practice my manipulations. None of this is going to make me any more competitive in the class. What it allows me to do is to a) make sure my guns and gear are working b) get my rust off. I go to classes to learn new stuff. I donât want to be there ruminating why I didnât clean up my trigger press or reload or whatever else beforehand. I want to be there with positive learning attitude; confidence in own current skill set helps one to be positive (not to be confused with to be an over-confident dickâŚ)
agree, but shouldnt the âhomeworkâ be your consistant meaningful practice and not âcrammingâ before th class date? I mean if you have âdone your homeworkâ in that larger sense then taking the week off before class shouldnt make you fall to pieces.
I mean I practice plenty, normally 200/week pistol. So its not like I suddenly become unprepared by not shooting a week before class.
I went to a Defoor Advanced Handgun course earlier this year. I had shot IIRC 50 rounds the week before the class.
Day one, drill one, no warmups he runs us through a brutal âcold skills drillâ with a 25 yard dash and 25 yard pistol shots on a bullseye for score, followed by some timed draws and Kyle standing over your shoulder with a clipboard recording each shooter individually. I went home with a set of Defoor sights on that one not because I did or didnt practice before class, but because I practiced regularly in all the time between classes. And yes, the best part was I beat a good friend of mine who is outright a better shooter than I am.
