Glock ejection and brass to the face

While viewing Glockworx’s web site, I saw that they offer their own oversized ejector, which is longer than stock ones and may need trimming after installation. So, I now wonder whether or not experimenting with it might provide a remedy for btf issues. The Glock ejector has a vertical dimension(height)that’s smaller than a Browning HP, 1911, or CZ. Note that these pistols eject brass through a window much smaller than Glocks. Putting the correct angle on these ejectors is sometimes necessary to kick out brass in a desired direction.

My question: Can the Glock slide be altered to accept a custom ejector having a greater vertical dimension(height)? My logic is that tweaking a beefier ejector might allow the gun smith to control the ejection pattern.

I have actually theorized before that a longer ejector, front to back rather than taller might give superior ejection control. The factory 336 ejector has approximately a .125"(IIRC) gap that the round has to travel before it hits the ejector but is no longer in the chamber. That means it is being pushed upwards by the round behind it and depending on how good a grip the extractor has on the case, it will influence where the ejector hits the fired case, most likely affecting it’s trajectory. This stackup of slide velocity, round stack pressure upwards, extractor dimensions, extractor plunger/spring strength and finally case rim dimensions can vary quite a bit between guns and batches of ammo and even over time as a gun wears in.

Both Sig and S&W M&P have ejectors that hit the fired case as soon as it the fired case mouth clears the chamber which is why I think they have much more consistent ejection. They have fewer variables in their tolerance stack.

Now when you extract a unfired cartridge out of a S&W M&P you will cringe when you watch the ejector actually bend slightly as the bullet clears the case mouth so that might be something that could cause problems with a longer ejector on a Glock.

If I had the spare time, I would like to try it, but here lately I haven’t even had time to shoot at all.:frowning:

I have a gen 4 19 and was getting hit fairly regularly, all different loads/ammo.
I used the APEX extractor and it seemed to cure it. No other changes to the pistol.

Me too. It allowed me to sell the thing with a clear conscience.

I messed with timing the ejector on several problematic Glock’s (to no avail). The Glock BTF issue is multi-faceted problem that really can only be FULLY cured by lowering the ejection port window and installing the Apex extractor. On top of this, I would use the Wolf + power mag springs.

C4

I had a VERY problematic 3rd gen G19 that had this problem.

Totally annoying…but about 3-5 times every mag…I’d get a casing shot straight to the center of my forehead.

The Apex extractor alone cured my gun’s problem. I have close to 2200 rounds through the gun AFTER the Apex unit was installed and the thing ejects brass like my old 2ng gen G17. Not one piece to the face or even close.

So you may…or may not need the ejection port lowered. Mine also shows no large brass marks near the port like some problematic Glocks did.

To totally “fix” one of these BTF Glocks requires patience and not one fix does it for every gun. Maybe I got lucky…I don’t know but with the Apex part alone…my G19 is humming right along.

-brickboy240

According to James Yeager, you’re a sissy who needs to work out and can’t control the recoil.

I on the other hand had the same problem with a gen3 G34. I had the place where I got it from swap out the ejector to a different numbered one and I didn’t have any more problems after that. I believe it was part number 30274.

You are indeed one of the lucky ones… The G19 I had, still had problems even after changing the ejector and installing a Apex extractor, It stopped the BTF, but introduced a new problem…double feeds, I tried fitting the extractor using Apex’s instructions, but couldn’t get it quite cleared up, it’d still double feed usually about every 200rnds or so. I figured that there was probably more than one issue going on here. At that point, I gave up on it and moved on. I liked it, but after that experience, and the fact it doesn’t seem that Glock has the BTF issue fully resolved, I haven’t felt the urge to take a spin at the wheel of fortune so to speak, and see if I could get a G19 that works…Maybe I’ll check back in a few years…

You could always buy a used 3rd gen G19 or G17…they are out there. The earlier 3rd gen 9mm Glocks were rock solid.

-brickboy240

For right now I’m going to stick with what I have, A P-30 LEM, I’m pretty interested in the striker fired P-30 that’s coming out, But we’ll have to see how that shakes out. If HK manages to put a decent trigger in it then I’ll give it some serious consideration. I’m also interested in the 4.1 LEM that HK is supposed to have parts in the U.S. sometime this year… Reducing the LEM’s pretravel by about 3/16"(that’s what it came out to when I converted it from metric) would go a long way to making the LEM a better trigger… For me, going the 4.1 LEM route would probably make more sense, as well as being a lot less expensive, as I could probably install the parts myself…

I still don’t know why they had to change the ejector on the G19s. I have some erratic ejection with my 2014 Gen 4 but no brass marks on the slide and no BTF. My wife has a 2009 G19 with the 336 ejector and it has consistent extraction. I can load each pistol with a round chambered and take the magazine out. I can then rack the slide and both of them will spit the round out the side around 3:00 or so. Perfect ejection.

I guess Glock hired the ex-managers from Coca Cola that gave us the “new Coke” back in the 80s! LOL

Companies get a good thing going then start trying to “improve” on it and ruin the very thing they created.

Why they do this…I do not know.

-brickboy240

I still don’t know why they had to change the ejector on the G19s. I have some erratic ejection with my 2014 Gen 4 but no brass marks on the slide and no BTF. My wife has a 2009 G19 with the 336 ejector and it has consistent extraction. I can load each pistol with a round chambered and take the magazine out. I can then rack the slide and both of them will spit the round out the side around 3:00 or so. Perfect ejection.

They will always do this with a loaded round.:wink: The bullet keeps the cartridge trapped in the chamber until the ejector hits it.

Do the same thing with a fired case. It will often just fall out the bottom of the magazine well because there is nothing holding it up.

It will slip out of the grip of the extractor before it hits the ejector without a magazine being there to support the case as it extracts.

Not really. The worst ejecting Glock I owned was a 2-pin third gen 17.

Glocks have always had somewhat erratic ejection. They just get worse with every improvement.

The whole point of Glock’s existence is to be a cheap, reliable pistol.

If they’re going to be this kind of a PITA, then why bother?

I got lucky that an $8 part fixed mine.

Gen.3 Glock 19----BTF,top of head,forward, left,right forearm.
Polished extractor----no change
Replaced extractor— no change
New plunger spring— no change
New extractor at GSSF match—no change

30274 ejector----- BIG CHANGE!!! But not 100%
Spring Loaded Bearing— replaced the LCI with a NON-LCI one----- Now 100 % for several thousand rds. and almost all brass 4 ft. right rear

I don’t know why I didn’t think of doing it with fired brass so just now I did that. I did this on the 2009 era G19 and my 2014 Gen 4 G19. I used the same mag and did it with another fired brass in the mag, empty mag, and no mag. Everytime the brass ejected to the side and once each pistol it spit the brass at the 2 o’clock. Maybe its just me or the fact that I rack the slide with some force to more closely simulate firing but even with no mag it still ejected the brass out of the ejection post. The brass never went through the mag well.

Hey guys. 26 Inf has a view that if you are getting brass to face it is because your fundamentals are wrong.

Maybe he will share it with us.

See the thread here:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?218341-US-Made-Glocks-GTG&p=2777222#post2777222

I wish Glock were so perfect. Perhaps there are some folks who have a problem, but that doesn’t mean the issue isn’t real.

If it were my “fundamentals” I guess the hundreds of training hours I’ve had, and all my Glocks that work fine, when suddenly I get one that throws brass in my face was suddenly with that particular gun I sucked, then I pick up another Glock and everything is fine again.

Then the problem goes away once I replace crummy Glock ejectors and extractors with other parts then the gun works fine all a sudden.

Most of my guns are Glocks, but I’m no fanboy and certainly not a Glock apologist. I can’t imagine if we had the same attitude we collectively have to guns with other consumer products.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi guys!

Let me explain my perspective on this.

I was one of the primary firearms instructors at the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center from 1980 to 2016. KLETC is the central academy for the state of Kansas and we trained between 300 - 350 new officers each year. Additionally, we conducted firearms instructor classes as well as in-service training classes. During my tenure I developed and conducted more of these classes than any of my co-workers.

By the very early 1990’s, Glock had become pretty well entrenched in LE, when we used to run the records it seemed that over 60% of our shooters were using Glocks. Early on we standardized on a 9mm 147gr FMJ loaded @ 990 (PF=145). We shot that round for most of my career. With the advent of the .40 S&W we began using a 180gr FMJ loaded @ 890 (PF= 160). For .45 we always used a 230gr FMJ @ 825 (PF= 189).

The reason that I detail the ammunition used for training is because in any in-depth discussion of brass-to-face I do mention that perhaps one reason I’m not familiar with the phenomenon is that we used heavier, slower ammunition.

While I feel that needs to be pointed out in order to be fair, I don’t think that is the reason we never saw BTF as a problem. I think the real reason we never saw BTF as an issue is that we were firearms instructors not firearms watchers. By that I mean firearms training at our facility was not 16 shooters on line with a guy running the line and two instructors (or less) as is common at many of the high-speed courses folks love to attend. Rather we tried, and almost always succeeded in getting a 2 shooter to one instructor ratio. Our staff instructors were definitely inter-active and our guest instructors that weren’t interactive enough, or not able to give good instruction, generally weren’t invited back. BTW, our firearms instructor course required officers to do an ‘internship’ by coaching during one of our classes.

What I’m trying to point out is that by the time shooters fired their first live round, their draw stroke, grip and finger placement on the trigger had been analyzed and corrected during dry-fire drills - in the classroom and on the range. During range exercises they were closely monitored and coached.

I’m not saying we never had a shooter eating brass. We did. But it was corrected without pistol modifications.

That is where I’m coming from with my perspective.

Now, I’m going to go out on the sandiest road I can find, snuggle my PSA mid-length M4ish clone into the sand and run over it with my Dodge Ram.

Good enough?

ETA: Out of fairness, just thought of another reason I may not have seen a lot of BTF. Generally our Glock reps furnished us with parts so we were able to armorer service and upgrades on all Glocks that came through our basic classes, Sig pretty much did the same thing. I think it largely depends on the relationship you have with your reps.