Have a slide ready to go for a RDS. Need some suggestions or thoughts on the differences between the TSD Glock vs. Bowie Tactical. For the most part they are the same set up with the exception of the rear BUIS placement.
TSD : Rear of RMR
Bowie: Front of RMR
Personal thoughts or experiences greatly appreciated.
I follow Gabe religiously and had my G17 milled before he thought backup sights were a smart idea.
My G17 has no front and no rear.
My best friends FNP45 Tactical has the same optic as me but with nightsites behind the RMR and a tall front sight.
I find his too cluttered.
YMMV.
Chris
The placement of the RMR is less critical than the placement of the rear sight, so I would suggest placing the rear sight behind the RMR. It seems like there would be less issues this way as well, considering sight height and notch width.
All other things being equal, I’d rather keep the rear sight behind the RMR so that you have a longer sight radius should you need to use them.
Thats a fairly sweet idea. I was just getting ready to start a thread about RDS on pistols. So if the dot goes down are you able to see clearly through the glass and acquire a decent sight picture?
Very well put. I’m not too concerned with the view as they will look the same from the rear of the pistol, as the front sight will be in focus and rear a silhouette. Radius will be a difference of 2 inches or so.
With that said, it seems the Bowie may have less holster issues with the RDS placed further to the rear and have some protection for the RMR.
Should have our G19 LWD slide back this week, had the same question, went w/ the rear in the standard position like your top pic.
Got feedback from several fellas including SME Doc Roberts, ended up w/ an RMR 8.0 w/ AmerGlo suppressor irons, it will have a learning curve & should be interesting.
I also respect David Bowie & his work, YMMV but don’t think you can go wrong either way, just do get the backup irons.
Less the vertical line and the front sight orange mark.
Just like below.
Guys, I’ve had mine like this for quite a while now. I think some people get WAY to hung up on Back up sites.
What makes the dot great is the Fast Precision that it affords.
Place dot on target, pull trigger.
Iron sites, especially those with vials clutter the view. Make it less fast.
Now the next thing you are going to say is what happens when the RMR fails, battery dies, etc?
I would tell you from personal experience and about 2k rounds down range since March, that the optic makes for a great ghost ring out to about 50 feet. Put target in window, pull trigger. Now can you make headshots that way? No. Can you put rounds COM? absolutely.
Also I have the tritium/fiber combo and have no fear of it going TU.
I’ll risk having the optic go bad and possibly only having a ghostring at the most inopportune moment for the speed that the optic provides me with its uncluttered view any day.
Chris
I will echo CCKs comments above. I have the tridium/fiber optic RDS on my M&P. I had it done by Bowie Tactical and they machined the vertical line in the rear of the sight of the RMR. It makes it easy for getting the dot near center quickly with a refrence point AND I can use it as an approximate rear and place my front sight on top for closer shots (like the top picture from post #8 without the rear irons).
You may not have wanted me to reply on a question about me so you can blow this off as you see fit. I have been at this red dot thing for many years and have shot alot of different set ups. I put the BUIS in front for alot of reasons. After shooting BUIS in the rear it was clear it was not the place for them to be. When running a gun in all different positions you may find yourself in sometimes the dot gets blocked by the rear sight. And if you have a tall enough one to really use if you need it that can be an issue. When you can’t find the dot it adds to an already stressfull situation. Plus the RDS up front gets in the way of more holsters and gets even more junk from ejection port. with this set up the rear sight protects the RDS from some of it and from odd ejecting rounds. I can and do mill in either place but BUIS in front is way better. It allows the dot to be used anywhere in the window completely un-obstructed by rear sight wings and even if it falls in behind the rear sight it still is visible and is still superimpossed on target and is fully usable. As for sight radius that is really not that big of a deal. We all have very short guns and hit with them so to give up a little radius for all the benifits is a small price to pay. You will see this BUIS in front set up in some pretty well known hands before long. Even the sight manufaturers have had me build them a gun this way. I hope this was not improper to answere on this but I have evaulated this over and over from behind the gun and this works better. Like a i say i can mill either way but i’ll stick with mine in front.
David Bowie
David:
Thank you for the input. A lot of the points you mentioned have me leaning toward the BT set up. I’ve been able to take a live look at the rear view of the TSD and it is indeed quite busy especially during the day. In short, I will be sending it out to you. Thank you again.
After considering both options, I went with the rear sight behind the RMR option. That doesn’t mean it is the best set up, but it is the way I decided to experiment with the RMR on my pistol. I sent the slide off to One Source Tactical, and for $240 had the slide milled for the RMR and rear iron sight, and had the all black suppressor sights installed. Mark at OST is very thorough, he calls before the slide work is done to confirm exactly what the customer wants. OST makes it very easy to place the order and get the work done. I got it back about 10 days after shipping it out. If I like the RDS on my Glock 23 I will look into sending my Glock 35 to try David Bowie’s method which seems to have a great deal of merit also.
The quality of the work is top notch. The RMR fits exactly and comes with two shorter screws than the ones Trijicon supplies. I did not go for a refinished slide, and the cold blue applied to the milled areas seems excellent.
I am concerned about water resistance. The RMR has a thin gasket built in to the bottom that seals it against the mount, in this case the top of the slide. The gasket is right at the edge of the slide sides. The optic overhangs the slide ever so slightly and the area of the cocking serrations concerns me. Water getting into the area between the bottom of the optic and the slide, where the battery on my LED version sits would not be a good thing. Time will tell and this may be a reason to consider the batteryless tritium version for pistols.
The front sight seems very tall. Only one way to see if it’s right and that is to shoot the gun. A tall sight is correctable with some light filing and cold blue, so I’m good with it. Both sights are all black; good for me as I want them as a back up. They are easliy picked up looking through the RMR. First impression is they are there when I want them but don’t have any distracting marks to take away from the dot. The front sight is also very thin, which I also like as it is easily and quickly framed in the wide rear notch.
The Raven Concealment Phantom holster I’m using only needed a few seconds under the heat gun to allow the RMR fitted Model 23 to slide in to the holster and reform the area. A very minor change in shape where the RMR’s left side contacts it was all that was required.
I’ll report back once I shoot the Glock with the RMR.
I was recently backpacking for several days at 7-10,000 feet; we had extensive rain, hail, and light snow. An LED RMR equipped pistol was with me the entire time and experienced no issues with getting wet and cold.
Thank you for the review. Let us know how it shoots for you.
My question with my Glock is how do I know, short of removing the RMR, Doc. There doesn’t seem to be any other way to tell. Time will reveal the answer, I just don’t like the battery sitting right on top of the slide.
If you are concerned about the battery touching the slide just take a small peice of electrical tape and place it on the battery and keep the metal on metal from occuring.
David Bowie
Tagging this one - Thanks Mr Bowie for the logic behind the lay of the irons in front of the RMR.
Mr. Bowie offers good advice; we always run a piece of tape over the battery.
That is good advice and I will try it.
My real concern is that the battery is exposed and not sealed in the optic. Water is insidious and gets into everything. It is powerful and destructive (made the Grand Canyon).
I guess I was under the impression that the battery was sealed in the sight. I think the picatinny base that I got for mounting the RMR on a 1:00 rifle position provides a better seal as it is wider than the base of the RMR and provides full contact for the built in seal on the RMR. The Glock slide is slightly narrower and the RMR overhangs slightly on each side. The cocking serrations are underneath the overhang also, which could be just enough space for water to get in. Maybe?
I’m sure if it becomes an issue there will be plenty of info posted about it. I just don’t want to find out by the battery corroding in the base of a $470 RDS.
Just thoughts for discussion on what I really like as a “next step” in carry pistol advancement. And if it doesnt work out, the RMR goes on my carbine. I will need a plate milled to seal the top of my Glock though, just like the FNP Tactical ;). That would be a nice option for those offering the milling service for these slides, hint, hint, a plate to seal the hole ehen the RMR is off.