Glock 19 failing fresh out of the box.

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
41

What is the “norm”? Statistically that word means that more Glocks have problems than don’t have problems. Is that what’s being claimed? Because if so that needs to be quantified more than by anecdotal stories on the internet or even within a shooting class. I can see how it might be a “norm” that at least one Glock will have a problem at some point during a class, but extrapolating that to most Glocks requires a higher standard of proof.

All people hear is about the bad incidents online and so it becomes expected, and then it becomes a confirmation bias.

If everything goes right, no one says boo. If all you hear is the bad, than that’s what you expect. For every Glock that may have problems there are at least 10 that don’t.

Likewise there were always Glocks that had problems, the internet just amplified the noise. I’ve owned Glocks since the early 90s, they’ve all experienced malfunctions, especially within the first 500 rounds.

I certainly agree that Glock problems are increasing as bean counters get involved, but the notion that more Glocks have problems than don’t is a overbaked.

42

That’s unfortunate. I remember when the G-17 Gen 3 used to be the poster child for out-of-the-box reliability, and a lot of people thought that the Gen 4 would continue that tradition.

43

I don’t do “stories on the errornet” unless it is from someone I know well and trust what they are saying.

I frequently talk to several of the best firearms instructors in the world and frequently ask which guns are they seeing the MOST malfunctions from in classes. The new “norm” is to see Glock’s having the most issues. This is first person knowledge being shared with me.

It should also be noted that 1911’s aren’t found all that often any more in your higher end classes. If they were, it would probably be a tie for first place in the malfunction category. :wink:

As many know, I am a big time S&W dealer and a fan of the M&P. That means that a lot of the local shooters are also running this gun because they can get guns, mags and armorer work for lower than normal costs. Because of this, the number one gun I see in my VSM classes are M&P’s. Typically, if there are 15 students in a class, 12 of them are running M&P’s. Malfunctions are not common during classes.

It should also be noted that my main training gun is an M&P. Never had a reliability problem with the gun.

C4

44

One other thought. Most people do not shoot their guns. At this same Hackathorn class (which was full of people into training and shooting and regularly attend high end classes), the average round count they shoot is between 100-200 rounds a MONTH. That is only a case or two of ammo a year! That ain’t a lot, but is far more the average Glock owner who might shoot 100-200rds a YEAR.

Before I became a gun store owner, I would have never believed the above. It is common for people to come into our store and buy 100rds to last them a year.

Point to all this is that most people will jump on the net in these types of threads and tell everyone that their Glock runs “flawless.” The guys that go to training, shoot a lot will commonly paint a different picture.

Who is right? Don’t know, but what I do know is that all firearms work well sitting on your hip or in the safe. :wink:

C4

45

How long do you think before Glock gets a handle on their issues?

46

Probably not until people stop buying everything they can pump out, issues or not. I’m deeply invested in the Glock platform, but I haven’t bought any lately. The last Gen 3 G17 I bought is the only Glock I own that baubles. It inline stove pipes about once every 200-500 rounds, so it’s a teaching gun that I don’t carry. Bought it right when Gen 4s were becoming available.

47

Grant, So you’re saying that those who shoot their guns regularly are the ones experiencing the malfunctions? And anyone who says otherwise doesn’t shoot them enough?

Not buying it.

The OP said “out of the box” and “150 rounds”, surely if that’s all the round count you need to experience a malfunction, than those who shoot 200-1000 rounds in a year would certainly shoot enough to qualify.

I can agree that most of the malfunctions being seen by Hackathorn and others are Glocks more than other guns (without quantifying what those malfunctions were, how persistent they were, if they added a bit of lube and rocked on, if it was an ammo issue etc.) but there is no attempt to troubleshoot the issue beyond that.

I’m an M&P guy, and there are legitimate gripes about both guns, but people read on the internet “most of the malfunctions we saw were Glocks” and they hear “most Glocks malfunction.”

Just like they read “certain M&Ps have accuracy issues”, and extrapolate it to “the M&P is inaccurate.”

48

Not to diverge too far, but I wonder about large contracts such as the one below. Have Glock’s publicized issues affected these guns at all?:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-11/u-k-army-get-nypd-pistol-as-glock-bests-browning-after-46-years.html

49

Is this what is to be expected when we have the masses of the non shooting public suddenly panic purchase firearms?
When production demands skyrocket over night due to the political instability of our second amendment rights, is it not logical to expect more lemons of all guns to hit the market?
I have seen demand overwhelm production on assembly lines of other products. The FIRST thing to fail is quality control, then customer service, production, no matter how bad the end product may be, however will peak.
At this point it should be up to Glock to make it right.
I would think as the tempo of these incidents increases we will see more and more of this happen.

50

100% agree, it’s a matter of cost and risk management. It’s cheaper to sell more and then fix/replace the few that break, than it is to limit production/sales and maintain 100% reliability.

If most Glocks were unreliable, they’d be fixing it. My sense though is that with increased production, you have fewer available parts, and have to make due with what you do have, and then you have tolerance stacking issues as they mix/match parts, and decreased ability to properly test the guns that come out.

Same reason software manufacturers don’t issue a patch as soon as a new flaw is discovered.

51

Have you even read the thread or you just here to stir shit?
OP said they are making it right.

52

Always a bummer to hear about people having problems with their Glocks.

Also always a bummer to read way over the top generalizations based on zero factual statistical studies but more anecdotal.

In the classes I’ve been in the NUMBER ONE reason anyone’s pistol goes down, and have yet to see a Glock have problems, is because the shooter is a novice and has either not lubricated the weapon at all, or only minimally.

Strip the firearm down, brush it off a bit, LUBE it and … runs fine the rest of the day.

I’ve seen this happen to Taurus, Beretta, M&Ps, and 1911s. Have not seen it yet with Glocks.

So, with all due respect to Grant when he says things like, “more the average Glock owner who might shoot 100-200rds a YEAR.”

I’m raising the BS flag very high on this one.

53

There is a real issue with the latest glocks.

With that being said, for the last 30 years, there have not been. You could read the gun forums and there would be posts about this or that malfunctioning or not working. What guns run with what types of ammo,ect. For the most parts, glock issues (outside of the occational kaboom) were so miniscule compared to how many are out there compared to other brands.

I have over 20K rounds through my glocks. MY g19 has around 12K through it. Outside of normal PM, I have not had 1 malfunction… Nothing, nada not 1…And that is shooting a good amount of steel case and cheap shit. I can count on one hand the amount of times ive seen a glock choke, that wasn’t due to someone doing something retarded, and I worked at a gun range for over 4 years.

I would venture to guess there are magnitudes of glocks out there compared to other brands. I also believe that based on glocks stellar reputation throughout those decades, when one is malfunctioning, a bigger deal gets made, because it is (or was) very uncommon.

The boards are littered with people bitching about xxx brand, and sheeeeeet… S&W has a pistol in the M&P that comes defective from the god damn factory for christ sakes. Between the rusting on ealier models, barrel lockup issues, horrible accuracy and a trigger that is so pathetic that people have to spend over $100 just to make it usable. Then the fact that mags are not only expensive , but damn near impossible to find. Don’t get me wrong, Ide love to have skimmer triggers in all my glocks, but they are perfectly usable with the stock triggers

My last two glocks are less than two years old. No problems whatsoever, maybe I’m lucky.

Just bought a brand new G29SF so well see if it has the problems you guys claim.

Anyone who owns a couple of glocks and actually shoots them, should have their own parts kits. Parts are cheap and easy to find, so make yourself one so if you do have these kinds of issues, they can be replaced with known working parts.

54

These threads always strike me as somewhat useless.

There are a bazillion Glocks out there, statistically there will be “more problems”

End of story.

Oh, well.

55

Exactly. And their populated by all the same folks…those that have had problems and the Glock apologists. Glock obviously has a problem, but everything that can be said about it has already been said here.

56

The reason these threads aren’t useless is that it’s an enigmatic problem. Some guns have it, some guns don’t. Got it, that’s normal with anything mass produced…100% perfection is impossible, marketing slogans aside. That it shows up 800-1000rounds into service life in some guns, and is present from the start in others doesn’t help, though.

The main issue is that when the problem, a common-themed problem, at that, occurs…there isn’t a consistent fix. Swapping ejectors works for some, polishing extractors or swapping extractors to aftermarket, non-dipped, non-LCI, etc., different EDPs, and so on works for others, and for some nothing works, so threads like this or the other monster, provide a resource for what works, what doesn’t, and if factory CS is fixing the issue, or if other avenues are working better.

I think all Grant was trying to say is that since the problem does sometimes manifest itself after a significant round count, there may be plenty of folks who might discover this issue later in service life. Or not. I’m not trying to put words in anyone’s mouth.

I still carry Glocks every day, and of the 3 Gen 3’s I’ve purchased since the Gen 4 release, only one has any issues, and it’s super infrequent, but enough for me to not trust it like the others. I know, or know of, a solid handful of folks who have also experienced the ejection issues, so it’s not me whining about my sample size of one.

I wouldn’t even care as much if they all came from the factory with the problem, but there was a 100% fix. It’s just frustrating that its such an unknown, since I love the platform in general.

57

I’m challenging the assertion made by Grant that the average Glock user only shoots 100-200 rounds a year.

That kind of unsubstantiated, undocumented assertion in this kind of conversation is precisely why, ultimately, these conversations go nowhere in a hurry.

58

[QUOTE=ptmccain;1746936]I’m challenging the assertion made by Grant that the average Glock user only shoots 100-200 rounds a year.

I cannot say Grant’s comment is a correct assessment but from only my personal experiences i would lean towards agreeing with it. Not all of my friends own firearms but all of them that do rarely shoot. A couple have not fired their pistols in over two years. A couple others might put 120 rounds through theirs over a year, they mainly put a couple mags or a box of 50 through their pistol when they do shoot before calling it good, which is maybe once a quarter at best.

59

He may be not far off. You’re right, there is no hard data, but there are observations. I know people who bought Glocks during panic runs, and barely or even never shot them. Just to show the level of expertise, one dude bought 17C… I know people who own them but carry and shoot something else. I know people who use them to teach entry level classes, but do nothing else. Etc.

And, just to stir the pot, my 2011 Gen4 17 is easily carry-ready, while my 2011 M&P is solidly competing for a title of the worst out of box gun I ever had. Then again, I am anonymous internet poster with unknown skill level, so take it for what it is worth.

60

You could just as easily say “most every average gun owner only shoots 100-300 rounds” a year.

Here is how these threads always go:

I got a Glock and it DOES NOT WORK!!!
ARGHHHHHH

GLOCKS SUCK!!! I HATE GLOCK NOW!!!

No, no, Glocks are PERFECT!!! Perfect!!!

Snooze.

:lazy2: