I have swapped oem parts for oem parts on several glocks to try to cure the brass to face issue and only been successful around 1 in 3 times. The other ones that I could not get to work properly were sent back to Glock and replaced
You guys crack me up.
“I sent the Glock to the factory and after three trips it wasn’t fixed.”
Pretty sure the factory spec isn’t getting hit in the face with brass. Although who knows maybe the armorers who test fire the gun enjoy that.
Perhaps the pistol isn’t to blame?
No… you’re right… definitely the gun.
What does that even mean? That we’re making this up? Or the Glock fanboy excuse, “You’re limpwristing it”?
It is the gun. I have owned 10 handguns in the last 3 years. The only guns that bean me in the face 3-5 times per magazine are new-production Glocks. In fact, they’re the only ones that throw brass in my face at all.
Considering a new ejector and Randy’s extractor have fixed both of my currently-owned Glocks and the brass-to-face/erratic ejection issue has 100% disappeared over the course of over 4,000 rounds of both shitty and quality ammunition, yes, it’s the guns.
Maybe, just maybe, Glock doesn’t have a fix for the problem, doesn’t care to find a fix for the problem, and thus, sends the guns back with new parts that don’t fix the problem because that’s all the technicians can really do?
Nah, your theory is much more probable. It’s probably the multitudes of people reporting this problem who have fired thousands of rounds through their guns. Yeah, probably them. Definitely not the gun.
An update on my once very problematic 3rd gen G19:
I had a 3rd gen G19 (made in April 2012) that was horrible about brass to the face. I mean…it did it about 5-6 times per 15rd mag. the problem did not show up until about round number 800.
Got the Apex extractor made for the 3rd gen 9mm Glocks.
Well…I am at about round number 2300 or so, since installing the Apex unit and NO brass to the face at all! In fact, my G19 ejects like my 1992 made G17 - tosses all the brass in a neat little pile to my side.
I don’t know if everyone’s results are the same but for me…oh hell yeah…the 65 dollar Apex part TOTALLY cured my G19. I am going to guess that by 2300 rounds or so…if I have not seen brass to face show back up…the thing is fixed.
(I am now considering this G19 “GTG” and will mod it out for carry with sights and the Vickers mag release and slide stop)
So I am a huge fan of the Apex extractor.
I’d say give it a try.
-brickboy240
I installed my Apex FRE and got my updated ejector from MidwayUSA yesterday (was in stock when I got it). All installed now, and going to the range this weekend. I was getting BTF 1-2 times per mag with factory parts.
Has anyone ever heard of Glock sending back a Gen4 gun because a Gen3 couldn’t be fixed? I though i read that happening somewhere.
I did not get enough abuse yesterday, so I went back to the range with a friend today and shot my Gen 4 Glock 19. I shot 360 rounds without any problems. The brass all ejected at 3 O’clock 3 to 5 feet from where I was standing.
I went through 800 rounds the past two days and need to knock the dust off the RL550. It was better when someone else was buying the ammunition.
I’m a little overloaded with information at this point and there is a ton of mixed information to sift through as well. I’ve been shooting M&P 9mm guns for about 5 years. I have found that I seem to shoot Glocks much better, so I recently decided to start making the transition, starting with a brand new Gen3 19.
I took it out for the first time and put a couple hundred rounds through it yesterday. No actual failures, but erratic ejection was the theme of the day. I had cases dropping down on my head and on my right shoulder. I had cases popping straight up and then back down, bouncing off the gun. Had a couple in the face. All in, the previously described occurrences made up about 20% of the total rounds fired.
I don’t know if “brass to face” is considered to be strictly the literal brass impacting the face, or anything in the general vicinity (head/shoulders/arm). To me, this is all highly annoying…but is it a real problem with potential to cause an actual stoppage?
I’m really on the fence today, bouncing around between trying to get Glock to fix it, playing the parts swap game myself, or just aborting this grand idea of changing over to Glock at all.
Buy the part for Midway and find a Glock Armorer.
This is exactly how mt Gen 3 19 acted. If you send it back to the factory and ask for the 30274 ejector they will do it for you. Mine was sent there and returned in something like 10 days total, very fast. This ejector plus the APEX Extractor has made my Glock run as it should. It’s bu**&^it that modifications need to be made out of the box, but it beats selling it at a loss.
Yes BTF literally means Brass to Face and it sucks.
Brass-to-face is the worst part of Glock’s erratic ejection issues on some of their later 9mm guns. Mine was fixed with the 30274 and dropping in an Apex FRE. Cost me about $70, took about 20 minutes to install, I didn’t have to hassle with sending it anywhere nor spending about that same amount on shipping. I consider that a good trade off. And that $70 I spent on the Apex FRE was certainly less than what I’d lose reselling a defective pistol.
The stupid problems with my Glock led me to get a Walther PPQ. That was a big win in my book. I’ll never buy another Glock.
Here’s a video of my Gen3 Glock 19 in action before Apex remediation. Note the various ejection directions in addition to the few right to he face. Clearly a defective firearm. (Click image for the video)
While the ejector plays a small part, the heart of the problem lies in the extractor. It’s the only logical explanation for erratic behavior, the ejector doesn’t move and therefore should produce the same result every time. The angle and tension the extractor places on the casing is about the only variable, assuming a proper grip. Obviously when Glock changed the manufacturing method of their extractors they lost some control over tolerances. As far as I know they haven’t redesigned or updated their extractors, so sending it back to Glock will probably only get your extractor replaced by another crappy extractor, with the hopes that that one will tolerance stack the gun into working. You can take that gamble, or get the Apex and be done with it.
When the problems were first being narrowed down to the extractor, on a theory I grabbed a few old stock pre-dip factory extractors to have on hand since I was making the transition to Gen 4 pistols. Of my two Gen 4 19s, neither displayed BTF but one did have weak, erratic ejection out of the box. I installed one of the older factory extractors and it’s run like a champ for thousands of rounds since. The other ran fine to begin with, but ejection was weakening as the round count went up. At around 1000rds I threw a NOS extractor in that one as well, and again the pistol has run like a Glock should for a couple thousand rounds since.
Long story short, if you can source old style, pre-dip extractors they are worth a shot. A quick test just pull one out of an older Glock if you have one around and install it temporarily, it may work for ya. If you can’t find those, the Apex is a great choice as well. Those are the only two options I consider legitimate fixes until I see a totally new extractor from Glock. And maybe they do have one by now, who knows. That’s the downside of not keeping customers informed of updates and changes, and my one complaint about Glock. If you call them today complaining of brass hitting you in the face, they’ll swear they’ve never heard of the issue before.
And that’s my experience with the BTF ordeal, after wading through countless pages of varying information on countless websites and personally dealing with the issue myself. I’m not engineer though, so take it for what’s it worth. 
I am a lurker and normally don’t post, but I felt that I had to speak out in this thread. I contacted Glock about two G19s that were experiencing BTF. They refused to pay for shipping. It cost me $70 to ship just one of the guns to them, and they refused to change the ejector to the 30274 ejector after I asked them. Upon it’s return, the G19 had a new extractor and recoil spring, according to the paperwork. Upon inspection, the extractor had significant wear for only experiencing test firing at the factory. The pistol continued to send brass to my face, and Glock did not want to offer me any further assistance to fix the problem.
I contacted Apex to ask for assistance, and Randy sent me multiple emails in an attempt to help me. To me, this form of customer service is hard to come by in this day and age, and I hadn’t even bought anything from him yet, nor did he try to even sell his products to me. Instead, he was just genuinely concerned with helping me fix my problems.
At this point, I have ordered 2 of his gen. 3 extractors and placed them in my 2 G19s. So far, they have completely fixed my problems, and I am very satisfied with the part.
Randy has made a life long customer in me at this point, and I will happily recommend his company and products which is something that I very rarely do…
Seems pretty clear that the problem is that Glock is or was unable to consistently build some of their pistols to their own specs. I agree with you…definitely the gun.
That’s good to know. And I’ve seen how much he helps people out. I think if I decide to continue down the Glock path, I’ll go ahead and get the Apex FRE. It’s not cheap, but Randy certainly deserves the business and it looks like the FRE is the key component in fixing the problem for good.
I bought a newer G19 a little while back. I put a 50rd box through it shortly after I bought it and no BTF. With the next 200rds or so, I got BTF. I tore the slide down and discovered I have the dipped extractor. Now to make a shopping list of parts… :rolleyes:
At least Glocks are easy to work on.
Try the cheapest solution first. I had and austrian g 17 gen 4 that was part of the recall, i then called glock about it and they sent me the upgraded rsa. I was still getting brass to the face so i installed the 30274 ejector housing and that fixed the issues. This 17 had the non dipped extractor but I also have an austrian gen 4 19 that came from the factory with the dipped extractor and 30274 ejector and i have no issues with that one.
Krichbaum - my two cents. I had FIVE back G19s in a row between mid-late 2010 and early 2012, with three of them being factory replacements. Of those FIVE, three were 3rd Gen, two were Gen4s. The first Gen4 was a problem out of the box, the first 3rd Gen was fine through the first 1,500 rounds or so, then became a BTF machine. #s 3-5 were all erratic and unreliable out of the box. I’m now on Gen4 #3, and was “OK” at first - but, after the first erratic ejection (straight up over my head) I bit the bullet and put the APEX FRE in it, and it has been fine ever since.
If your pistol has the latest ejector, then sending it back to the factory will accomplish exactly nothing. Glock will not do anything with it except put in another MIM extractor and send it back, though, if you’re lucky (and insistent), they’ll switch out the ejector as well. This will likely work OK for a couple hundred rounds, sometimes up into the 1,200-1,500 round range, then you’re likely to be SOL. OBTW, Glock will want you to pay the shipping on this, so get ready to shell out about $70 to FEDEX.
So, your options are, IMHO - get the APEX FRE and the 30274 ejector and fix the problem yourself, or dump the gun - with full disclosure to the potential buyer, please.
If you shoot the Glock better than the M&P, then I’d stick with it. You’re still financially better off with a Glock with the FRE & new ejector than an M&P with all the APEX parts to get the trigger cleaned up, or a match barrel to fix longer range accuracy issues…
Of course, I went a different direction altogether, and started using HK for my duty weapon - flawless reliability and accuracy that’s out of this world. Yes, it’s spendy, but to me, it’s worth the cost for removing questions about possible reliability, and having increased confidence based on the significantly improved accuracy.
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks for that response Kevin. I ended up at the same conclusion you recommended regarding the options: either fix it myself or sell it. Not even gonna bother contacting Glock.
The 30274 ejector is on the way already. I’ll probably just try the gun with the new ejector and see how it goes. If necessary I’ll order the FRE. I was all hot to swap my M&P’s out but now I’ll just wait and see how it goes. I’m already expecting I’ll need the FRE but hey, I’m in no rush.
On a related note, a shooting buddy who has several Glocks was with me when I shot this G19 the other day. Some of his are older models, his first was purchased new in 1994. He saw the erratic ejection once I pointed it out to him and he says all of his do it to some degree…he just kind of accepts it and doesn’t even consider what mine is doing to be a problem. After seeing me shoot my M&P’s and seeing how I shoot my new G19 as well as others, he thinks I’m crazy to not stick with the Glocks. But I guess it’s all about perception…maybe if I get tired of messing with mine, he’ll buy it and be happy 