Because they’re not reliable. At all.
A GM tech in this thread has already warned you.
Go check out the Car Wizard on YouTube. He comments frequently on how atrocious the GM 3.6L V6 is, and he’s not a brand fan of anyone except Toyota. He’s also a big fan of the old 3.8L GM V6 and the GM LS architecture series of V8’s (including the iron block truck variants) as long as they don’t have cylinder deactivation.
If you want a lighter car buy a Miata or a Toyota 86.
WTF are you talking about? To many problems in the c6? There are actually VERY VERY few issues with C6’s, they are fairly bullet proof cars. Ive owned 3 of them, one of which my old man bought from me and he daily drives and takes long road trips in with my mom. Please list out these “to many problems to daily drive”…the list will be short…
And have you even driven ANY of these cars you are thinking of buying? Gear swap right off the bat? Going to require an ECU flash which could(even if just to adjust for rear gear change) void your warranty… oh not to mention the rear gear swap will likely void the entire powertrain warranty anyway. And ive driven PLENTY of C6’s of all variety(LS2, LS3, LS7, manual, auto) and I never felt any of them needed a gear swap to lower gears. 400+ ft. lbs. of torque is A LOT in a 3300lb car. All manual C6’s have a 3.42 rear end already and the Z51 has a 2.97 1st gear(shorter than a standard and Z06 box). You can get a C6 rear end done for $1000 if you just HAVE TO do gears(assuming the rear end doesnt need any bearings or anything else, just gears and new seals).
And if what Alex V says is true about the v6 camaro having a 4.40 1st gear THATS CRAZY SHORT…even with a 3.27(or whatever) rear end. My 02 Z06 has what is considered a “short” first gear and its a 2.97 with a 3.54 rear end… I wouldnt want to drive anything with a 4.40 1st gear and a 3.90 rear end… 1st would be utterly USELESS and you would end up starting in 2nd all the time…guarantee it.
I think you are talking in “theoreticals” vs. real world experience.
Yeah the Vette is pretty good. The things we saw were from lack of driving (oil leaks etc.)
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A family member has recently had a 2000 C5 and a 2003 C5 Z06. I’ve driven both. Being able to take 2nd to over 80 mph is ridiculous. It’s like you only need 1st, 2nd, and 4th, really. Thats not very fun.
Issues have been: AC distribution, main seal leaks, Oil gauge’s go out / leak, clutch slave cylinder leaks, clutch pedal failing to return, fuel gauge inconsistently working, passive anti-theft issues, wheel speed sensors, roof panel leaks and squeaks, harmonic balancers coming loose, seat motor / memory issues, (as in, seat moves when you get it and won’t move back to where you need it) valve train issues (more of a C7 Z06 issue IIRC) and a few more I’m forgetting I’m sure.
I was hoping the C6 revision had repaired most of the issues but my research says otherwise. These issues are very common.
What appeals to me is the engine note, lightness / response, handling, brakes, good highway mpg, low insurance, and track readiness.
There are many cool things about Corvettes but as far as quality they are POS compared to most Asian brands and that makes me hesitant to purchase one for daily driving.
I’m not concerned about warranty because I’d be buying a '12 or '13 anyway with expired warranty. That’s about the same price as a '19 or '20 used Camaro SS, new Camaro 2LT 1LE, or for even less a new Hyundai Veloster N. Or for much less a lightly used '13-'16 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8L.
I used to have a Mustang Cobra with a 3.37 1st and 4.10 axle (came with 3.27’s) hear. Yea, 1st wasn’t very usefull except when stuck in traffic. I could let the clutch out without having to slip it and put along at 3-5 mph. And with a .63 5th (IIRC) 80 mph gave about 2750 rpm (IIRC) and that was fine. So 3.70’s in the V6 Camaro would be absolutely fine but I still don’t know what 5th or 6th gear is.
Really steep gears can stink when you have 400 ft lbs of torque and 450 hp. But when you have 325 hp and 285 lb ft and an engine that likes and needs to rev it’s quite fun and useable daily.
The point is to enjoy driving a good-handling car every day that is at least slightly faster and responsive than most cars on the road so I can move around better in heavy, fast traffic. Otherwise I don’t care and will gladly move right when the ZL1 flys past me at 120 doing a traffic-cop-check for me.
MOST of those are C5 problems.
-AC distribution: C5 problem solved by swapping 1 or 2 electric motors that isnt that hard to do. Never heard of issues in C6’s, at least its not a common issue.
-Main seal leaks: havent really seen any C6’s with either front or rear main seal leaks, not really a c5 thing either… really not an LS thing to much in anything that has an LS based motor.
-Oil gauge? not the oil gauge, oil sending unit… C5 issue, not a c6 issue. And on the C5 is EASILY remedied anyway.
-Clutch slave leaks: not an issue I have seen in either C5 or C6. NOW the slave attracting clutch dust and contaminating the clutch fluid, yea thats an issue, but nothing a little preventative MX every 6 months or so doesnt keep in check. Thats a C5, C6 and C7 issue.
-Clutch pedal failing to return: yea issue more in C6 than C5. I think GM has a special 10 year 100k mile warranty on the clutch master.
-Fuel gauge inconsistently working: not an issue on a car that is driven, its an issue on cars that sit as the contactors on the fuel senders get corrosion on them from not moving. A car thats driven is constantly cleaning the contacts as the sender contacts move up and down. Ive had 6 cars with the “same” fuel sender system and never had an issue. Also doesnt hurt to run a bottle of Techron in the tank every 6 months or so.
-Passive anti theft issues: C5 issue with the column lock. 2005 C6 was the ONLY c6 to have it, it was eliminated on 2006+ cars. Also easy to eliminate that issue on the C5 with a 40 dollar part.
-wheel speed sensors: never heard of this in C5 or C6.
-Roof panel leaks: in the 7 cars I have owned with removable tops(C4, C6, C7) I have never had one leak. Hell the C6 convertible never leaks either. Shit my C5Z06 with a FIXED ROOF leaks worse than any removable top Corvette I have ever owned, although to be fair the “rain gutter” is cracked and doesnt seal anymore… And leaky tops are EASY to fix with new weatherstrip which is pretty cheap.
-Harmonic balancers: yea its an issue, but far from only a vette issue. That same basic design has issues across ALL GM vehicles. The rubber that connects the hub to the pulley disintegrates over time. One time fix with an ATI or Innovators West pulley.
-memory issues: mostly a C5 thing, but also sort of affects C6 and C7. Each generation has their issues with it.
-valve train issues are solely related to C6Z(not C7Z) LS7, but doesnt sound like thats what you are looking for anyway. LS3 is bullet proof.
Thanks a lot for typing up your experience with these issues/non-issues.
I’ve been keeping an eye out for a ‘12 or 13’ manual, non-vert, LT2 (I think is what GM calls it, has good seats but no memory stuff to fail) not red or yellow, not high miles, not customized, (or barely) not smoked in, few owners, no or very minor damage history, not very far away, etc, etc.
Takes a while to find just what you want when you’re that specific. So I need to be open to other options.
Seriously the 6.2L is the way to go.
Are you talking about a 2LT trim C6?
LT2 is an engine code. Specifically the one in the C8’s.
I’m still having a hard time following your logic in this thread. You mention a positive for the C6 as it being “track ready” yet you praise the V6 Camaro…
As others have said, you need to do more research on the C6 platform. They are excellent cars and have very few issues. Pickup a 12-13 Grand Sport with the LS3 and it will do everything your wanting.
Forget the V6 F-Body.
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I would look for 08+ cars. LS3/TR6060. In the base cars there were really no BIG changes. In 2011 you got bluetooth audio in on the factory radio, but its a raging piece of shit, so I wouldnt let that sway me towards a 2011+.
If you like the seats from 12-13, you can change them out for a VERY reasonable cost yourself. Its just the seat backs, but you can buy kits with new bottom skins and new bottom foam also. www.leatherseats.com offers the conversion kit and you can customize your seats.
The PROBLEM with trying to find a 12-13 base, narrowbody car, is almost EVERYTHING was Grand Sport at that point. There were 2 GS’s built for every narrowbody in 2012. 2013 was also about the same 1:2 ratio of narrowbody to GS.
So if you HAVE TO HAVE a narrowbody, expand your search to 2008+ cars. If a grand sport interests you, then look at 2010+ cars. The seats can be redone pretty easily.
Also tracking a narrowbody car with the base brakes is a recipe for spread brake calipers. While the GS/Z06 calipers aren’t GREAT in the realm of “brembo” type calipers(they are not brembo calipers they are still PBR calipers) they are a HUGE step up from the 2 piston, sliding, base calipers. If you get a base car, keep in your budget some money to upgrade the brake calipers.
Also if you are searching only narrowbody cars, I personally would ONLY want a Z51 car. Thats 08-09… in 2010 Z51 was gone in the narrowbody cars and they forced you into a GS.
search on corvetteforum as there are LOTS of really nice cars on there.
Yea, I meant 2LT.
What makes the V6 “track ready” is the 1LE package with auxiliary engine oil cooler, transmission cooler, and rear end cooler.
These are things a non-1LE SS doesn’t have. That means I can stay out on the tracker longer without hurting anything.
So, I’d rather have a V6 with 1LE than an SS without that package.
My main concern with the GS Corvette are that fatass tires. I drive 15k miles a year and it’s not rare I’m driving in standing water on the interstate. I’d probably have to crawl in the right lane in a light car with fat tires. Then of course is the cost of tires. And I still think the 3.42’s stink combined with the tall gears (low numerically) of the transmission.
The difference in cost between a v6 1LE and SS 1LE is at least $15K. In addition, I’m not willing to pay big money for a new car I’m going to put miles on and get chipped up on the interstate. That’s also why I’m open to used but low-mile.
So, the most I’m willing to pay is about $35k.
Bluetooth is a big factor towards the '11 and later. Thanks for telling me that system is junk!
I also didnt know the base brakes were sliding calipers! That means less pad life among other things.
Yes, I’ve found many more GS cars than narrow body. I actually prefer the smooth look of the narrow body C6 vs any C5-C8. It’s subtle, slick, and blends in more. (Feels more unpretentious and less popped-collar to me) Less attention is good.
Thanks.
Yet again, you are speaking about things you have no experience with.
You are stuck on this gearing thing and yet EVERYBODY is telling you its not a big deal, especially in a 3200lb car with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque… Stick it in 1st and let it rev. I drove The Dragon almost all in 1st gear in my C7Z06… 32 South of Cosby, TN was also all in 1st. Most other roads out there 2nd and 3rd… While I love a manual transmission sports car, I dont get the fascination people have with constantly shifting. Put the damn car in a gear and run it. I autox 99% of the time in 1st gear only.
And rain with wide tires is no big deal. Ive driven all of my wide body Corvette’s in the rain, some times for hours. No big deal. TONS of people daily drive wide body corvette’s in all kinds of conditions. Its not an issue.
yea dont base your decision on the factory junk radio.
And sliding calipers does not equal less pad life… how did you come up with that? Unless your sliders stick, your pad life will be relatively the same between sliding and fixed. I bet 95% of cars on the road use sliding calipers.
The wide body cars look so much better than the narrow body cars so I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
On the Mustang Cobras I’ve had the dual piston calipers would twist (road course) and the pads would wear unevenly leading to earlier replacement. (As in, the expensive pads could have lasted 25% longer or so if they wore evenly)
Not a concern with driving on the street.
I enjoy driving a car to the peak of its ability. That’s where the fun and “drama” is. If that ability is too high for me to play with on the street (80 mph in 2nd gear, 1.1g’s in a turn, etc. Then it’s less fun to drive every day.
A Sentra has too little ability to be much fun. An SS 1LE or C7 Z06 isnt going to be much fun on the street either unless you’re going out at 1-4a to risk getting arrested driving it in a manner that is fun.
Cars like the Genesis Coupe, 350/370z, hot hatches (Veloster N, Civic Type R) and similar (4T/V6 1LE Camaro - Lower-end Corvette?) Hit the sweet spot for fun daily and track driving for under $40k
Sorry havent replied in a few days because the forum was down for me.
Again, you are MOSTLY wrong about driving dynamics. My C7Z was the best car I have ever driven in any situation. manual with auto rev match, mag ride suspension, e-diff rear end, fantastic stability control system… damn that car did WHATEVER you wanted it to do. You still seem fascinated and transfixed on these gear ratio’s and what MPH gears run to, etc… but you fail to realize(because my guess is you have experience in exactly ZERO of these cars you want to buy) that with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque you have plenty of power to be in 3rd or 4th gear when in a car with a lot less HP and TQ you HAVE TO work the gear box. My C7Z I used 1st on the street mainly to get away from a stop sign and VERY quickly shifted to 2nd or hell even 3rd a lot of the time. 500+ ft. lbs. of torque just off idle makes that possible.
And I LOVE having a car I KNOW I can push up over 1g on a corner because I know there is a ton of safety margin. Lets say a 370z can hold .8g in a corner(I have no clue what they can do honestly) and the Corvette will hold 1.2… The Corvette is a lot more comfortable to drive at .7 or .8g through a corner KNOWING you have more, where as a 370z at that same .8 is at the razor edge. I never in all my years of driving Corvettes thought “I wish I was in something with less HP, worse suspension, smaller tires, etc… because well, ****, this just isnt fun driving the car at ONLY 7/10’s”… I HAVE been in cars like S2000 and Miata’s and 370z’s where I WISHED I had another 200hp, wider tires, etc…
Good luck in your search. You seem to have convinced yourself to buy something(v6 camaro 1le) that everybody with real experience in these cars is telling you not to get. Most are also telling you what to get and why and you are ignoring the advice because you have your head buried in the sand about buying a V6 Camaro and why its better than a Corvette. Let me know when you get your V6 Camaro and ill bring my beater 2002 Z06 down and we will go do a track day and you’ll learn quickly why Corvette is held in such high regard.
Okay, so I’m gonna have to say one thing here, if you never swapped gears on a LS anything Vette or FBody you don’t know what you’re missing.
When the car was stock and I started taking it to the track I blew the ring and pinion. Luckily I was friends with a guy who owned a Buick Pontiac GMC dealership in south jersey and he installed a set of 3:73s “under warrantee” lol. Going from 3:42 to 3:73 was a pretty good chance.
When I finally grenaded the 10-bolt I went to a Strange 12 bolt with 4:10s. By that time the car had a used heads and can setup, headers and so on making just under 400hp to the rear wheels. Changing to a 12 bolt with 4:10s took me from an 11.85 to a 11.32 ET because I was able to leave the line harder and it put me in the power band earlier.
Gearing the car wakes it up like nothing else.
Right now in that same car I have a 525RWHP solid roller heads and cam setup with 4:56 gears.
Trust me, a stock C6 6spd with 4:10s is AWESOME!
I dont believe I ever said a gear swap in and of itself was a bad thing, BUT in the context of the OP’s complete and utter lack of experience with these cars and him thinking, before he has ever even driven one or has any appreciable seat time, he needs a gear swap, just based on what some gear vs. speed charts tell him, I think its a ridiculous conversation to be talking about gear swaps…
The c4 6spd runs GREAT with 4:10 gears. I’m going to put 3.90’s in my C5Z when I have the diff rebuilt in a few weeks. IM not OPPOSED to gear swaps… But gear swaps due to education, experience, need, etc… are one thing. Gear swaps “because I read a chart” is just as bad as Rob S’s “the chart” from years ago. There is a huge difference between “theory” and “reality”…
The OP really wants an MX-5, or something similar. I don’t know why he’s stuck on a V6 Camaro.
He says he wants light weight, approachable limits on the street, and a power plant he can rev out and play with while not risking going to jail.
That is pretty much the design brief of a Mazda MX-5 or the Toyota 86.
I’ve changed to higher (numerically) axle gear sets in 5 cars. It is not new to me. I’ve owned and driven sporty cars for 25 years. NA, supercharged, nitrous, and engine sizes 6.6L to 3.8L.
Have driven and ridden but not owned a Corvette.
Although I’ve driven a 17+ Camaro SS manual and 17+ V6 auto Camaro I have not driven a late model V6 1LE Camaro.
You don’t seem to understand some people do not care how fast you say you are. Miata trackers know they are slow yet have big smiles on their faces.
You do sound like one of those guys who talks game but either never tracks your cool ride because reasons or if you do ends up getting lapped by the group most sessions.