Gear Layout Questions

I’m sure a lot of this is personal preference, but I’ll ask anyway for recommendations based on experience that I can use for starting points.

I am a civilian, but also an Eagle Scout and the “be prepared” motto runs strong. My daily ccw is an M&P 9. I train with it more than with a rifle because that’s what I’m most likely to be using in a defensive shooting. However, I do also practice and train with my rifle.

I carry the pistol in a bag part of the time and on my person the rest of the time in a Comptac Minotaur IWB.

It makes the most sense to me to have a rifle rig that allows the use of the pistol rig I already use.

I have 1 comp-tac rifle mag carrier that is paddle style so I can quickly and easily add it to the left side of my belt without having to unthread it.

Beyond that, I have the BCM03 MSF chest harness with an extra mag pouch added for a total of 5 mags on the rig.

If I were running the rifle for an extended period of time, I would grab the chest rig.

Next comes the dump pouch…some classes and instructors require them, some despise them. Regardless, I have one. It’s currently on my chest rig under my left armpit. That makes it easy to drop the mag and grab a replacement on the way back to the gun. However, having the dump there interferes with the sling. I’ve got a work-around for now, but I’m thinking I’d like to move the dump pouch off the chest rig and onto the belt. However, that still requires a thread on-off of the belt…PITA.

I’m reluctant to go to a warbelt setup because I want to maintain my ccw setup for the pistol.

Ideas? Input?

Lose the dumper.
Completely unnecessary off the training bay unless you are tearing a house apart for time sensitive intel.
If you must have one, get a small one that sits at right about your support side ass cheek.

One more thing: cargo pockets work great for empty mags and other crap that people stuff in their dumper.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

Good point, thanks.

You know, it’s like this…I felt kinda dumb being the only guy in a chest rig at my first (only) Vickers class. However, I figure I should run the same setup all the time. If the class requirement says the ability to bring 2 or 3 mags to the line, that means the one on the belt won’t be enough and I need to wear the chest rig.

I do realize I could walk to the line with a mag in my hand (ready to go into the gun), one on the belt in the pouch, and a third in my back or cargo pocket…I just don’t want to get stuck reloading out of that cargo pocket and fumbling around.

Trying to walk the line between functionality and real-world civillian apparel.

Make sense? Am I thinking on the right track?

I am not the tactics/guns/gear police. Nothing I say should be taken as an absolute, nor any implication that I know what’s best for you. I am happy to offer advice, and don’t be afraid to simply take what advice/experience I share and use what you think will work for you. Without being able to talk face to face and with hands-on guidance, there will always be a greater degradation of communication, and I don’t want minutia to interfere with concept.

Anyway…

There is nothing wrong with using a chest rig to carry ammo to and from the line during classes, however, I have no problem with people bringing 5 loose mags to the line, a mag bag full, bandoleers, or full armor systems. I simply want people to train in what they are going to be wearing in their most probable application of whatever firearm is being covered. If that means nothing but an extra magazine in your back pocket, great; I would rather see you learn how to access and protect that mag than learn how to reload from full battle rattle from a thigh panel, as long as that is what you have determined will be the default.

Personally, I am just fine with a single magazine in a clip-on kydex pouch with a spare in my back pocket. In my previous job that was different, but not many people in CONUS need to wear what I did while I was out and about trying to get into gunfights with a bunch of other heavily armed and supported dudes.

When it comes to putting stuff on my body I want it to do 3 things; and they’re all about “holes”.
Making holes
Preventing holes
Plugging holes
Taking the time to put on a plate carrier takes the same amount of time as strapping on a chest rig, but it stops holes (armor), helps me make holes (carries magazines and does not impede my use of the firearm), and plugs holes (simple trauma kit for self-fixes).
A chest rig can do 2 of those things.
This is not always a bad thing, there are times/places where a simple chest rig will have an advantage over plate carriers, but they cannot stop bullets. When and where that trade-off is worth it is for you (and your financial priorities) to decide.

Regardless of how you transport your magazines to the firing line/breach point/line of departure/back yard/whatever, the idea that it is your responsibility to constantly refill the speed reload pouch/happy pouch/emergency reload pouch/whatever the cool thing to call it this week is, is what you should be focusing on. That might mean bumping a magazine from the chest rig to the belt kydex pouch, or from the mag bag to your back pocket, or from the ground to your RediMag. The speed reload pouch should never be empty longer than it takes you to deal with the threat(s) that forced the reload.

There is a great deal of sense in learning to reload from every mag pouch on your body, but only if you are carrying enough ammo to require it. I used to reload from every one of my 7(+) pouches from the prone, from both shoulders, when I carried that much ammo in performance of my duty, in the event that I actually needed to put down 210 rounds of ammo without the opportunity to do anything else. Now I simply focus on reloading from my belt pouch and bumping ammo to that belt pouch when it was used. The primary purpose of reloading from every pouch was to ensure that I intuitively knew the location of every pouch, and that they were accessible from the most constraining position.

I am not going to pretend to know the future, but there are very few instances where anyone that doesn’t have an occupation that expects you to carry a gun while running toward the sound of battle will need to shoot that much ammo. So, to me, when it comes to “what do I want to strap to my body and how much weight/bulk do I want to deal with?”, a shit load of ammunition is a lower priority than armor and bleeder kits.

Final thought: avoid mixing empty/damaged magazines with working ones with ammunition. I rarely put full mags into my cargo pocket. Left leg gets empties/stoppage related mags and non-magazine shaped objects. Partial mags go into the pouch or back pockets, and only into the speed reload pouch if there are no full mags to put there.

I’ll be the contrarian… I actually like a dump pouch for classes. I tried a bunch of different ways to keep my kit squared away for classes etc but in the end, a dump ended up being the best solution for me and my needs.

I like having the ability to have one spot for empty mags, staged mags, notepad, pen and a bottle of water if needed. The easy access was what I was looking for as I grew tired of having shit shoved in pockets all over me and having to “dig” said shit out of pockets. The dump allows me quick access to things that I need frequently and gives me a spot to throw empties etc…

I’m also not a fan of having shit in my pockets if I can avoid it (I don’t even carry a wallet). so that could be part of the reason that it ended up working well for me. I know others don’t mind loading up their cargo’s and rocking out a class.

Specter makes a dump pouch that snaps which would allow you an easy on and off solution. I also like that it drops down below the belt a bit offering easier blind access.

Here is a pic of it on my Brokos to give you an idea of what I’m talking about. Even though you don’t want a war belt you can get an idea of how it sits.


Folded up

You aren’t disagreeing with me, unless you just want to :smiley:
They are great in classes and training, just of very limited use in the real world unless you need somewhere to retain found items/extra shit you don’t have room for in your gear.

lol Roger that! When I go to a class, or am training, I want to be able to have my mind as free as possible so that I am focusing on learning and building good reps, not on my gear or setup. Fighting your gear at a class sucks and IMHO takes a lot away from the learning experience.

The Brokos really helped me set my gear up for ME. I carry a double Pmag pouch and double Glock pouch, dump pouch, Multitasker 2 and my G19 and that’s normally it. If I am running a drill that requires more than 3 thats where the dump is also handy. The only time I ever wear the LMAC is when I am required to do so…

This is pure gold! Thanks man!

Really good conversation in this thread. Thanks for the help! I think I’m going to move some gear now!

Like D90king I to have found the dump pouch useful for the range. I think the problem is people mixing half mags, full mags, and empty mags in it. I use it soley for notebook, pen, camera, and empty mags (IE Range admin stuff). It really helps keep me organized at the range. I use it for non-fighting gear only. I mean hell i had a bottle of gateraid in it at my last class when it was hot as hell. I’ve got the EGL Loppy so it takes up very little space when not in use.

I have seen people do empty mag retention reloads and put the mag into their dump pouch. I think that is ludicrous. Taking the time to retain an empty magazine after you just fired a round (causing bolt lock) is insane. That is not reality- i dont care what zombie apocalypse your training for. Speed reload- and then squat down and pick up the empty mag if you really need it and there is time to do so. If theres not time to pick it up in a gunfight (there probably wont be) then theres not time to retain it. This is probably why “real world” fighting dudes have had the dump pouch leave a bad taste in their mouth. This might be a subject for another thread though.

What i found happening is a drill would be over and i would pick up the empty mag and put it into my pocket, but soon enough i would run out of room and an empty mag would end up in a magpouch which was no bueno for me.

I agree with a lot of what has been said here… I wore a dump pouch a couple of times - pointless in any kind of real world application IMO.

Also my philosophy of a civilian having gear is very similar to yours. I also work from my concealment pistol rig as much as possible and have gotten away from things like duty belts war belts etc…

Speed mag changes should drop the mag on the dirt and in an admin mag change you have time to put your mags somewhere else. When your moving around in the woods, in an urban environment, in and out of vehicles etc having excess shit dangling from you is bad.

I carry rifle mags in a simple chest rig. It has four pockets, but one is used for com-gear. I reload left to right out of it, full mags are pointing downward and empties go in the dirt. For administrative or tactical reloads, or when I police up a dropped mag- they go “bullets up” so I know if a mag is full (pointed down) empty pointed up & follower showing) or partially full (pointed up with bullets showing)

NOTES #1 I keep my BOK behind my pistol. It’s in a MOLLE pouch so I can add it without taking off the belt. You could do the same thing with a dump pouch but on the support side.

NOTE #2 when you are doing this make sure your CCW rig and chest rig work together. A lot of people never try out their multiple layers of shit until they get somewhere where they are supposed to be training.

some examples here

So as far as stopping holes goes, what’s the best choice? For me, I would only wear it for two scenarios:

  1. A training class that required it
  2. Somewhat extended period of social unrest that made me feel that a gunfight might be eminent (riots, economic collapse, etc)

It makes sense that in that scenario, some armor with 3 or 4 rifle mags on the front would be good. Otherwise, just run off the belt/back pocket.

From my searching thus far, prices are all over the board. I’m finding it difficult to cut through the crap and find out what’s what.

Also, it seems that if I’m going to go to the trouble of wearing armor, it may as well be able to stop rifle rounds as well as pistol rounds…fair thought?

Agreed with 100%.

The only think I like them for during training is to hold loose rounds when there is a crowd trying to fist-rape the ammo cans all at the same time. I toss a couple hand-fulls of rifle or pistol ammo (no both) and stand back to top off my mags.

If you absolutely “need” something. Go with one that weighs next to nothing and takes up little space like the Blue Force Gear 10-Speed Ultralight Dump Pouch. I own one and dig it.

Dave, maybe I wasn’t clear…these comments were referring to armor (“stopping holes”) not a dump pouch.

I’m pretty much good on loosing the dump pouch. There is one local “tactical” carbine match where the guy insists on it and docs points if you don’t retain mags…fine, I have a Maxpedition Roly Poly I can wear for those matches if I want to.

Sorry man. I should have read it better.
The roly poly is a good one too.

For armor, may be look for those value-line level IV SA plates that are popping up all over. I have seen them as low as $160 per plate.

Is this referring to armor, carriers, or both? If you’re referring to armor, here are some helpful links to get you started:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=62137&highlight=esapi
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19912
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19910

From there, you should be able to kinda pick your way through most of the crap and research the brands that you suspect are worth looking into.

I’m quite fond on the Maxpedition Roly Poly too. It’s been my Goldilocks dump pouch.

Too small to fill with stupid stuff, just right for an extra mag, note book or bottle of water. It also doesn’t flop all over because it has a relatively stiff, vertical orientation.