What do you think will be more available / useful overall?
I’m looking to get another vehicle and can choose from either. (4x4 SUV)
im biased lol, im a diesel guy 
a diesel vehicle is the better way to go in my opinion, better gas mileage, lasts longer, more power. theres nothing not to like, except that (around here anyway) its a little more then gasoline.
im in college right now, so, funds are a little tight, i drive an old ranger, its got the three liter v6 in it, and its been great. 240,000 miles on her and she still cranks right up every morning, and runs like a champ.
when i finish my degree and am in the military, i want to get what my dad has, a dodge 3500 dually (cummins of course). his is an 08 with the 6.7L in it and a bully dog tuner, and we removed the diesel particulate filter. the truck will do four wheel drive burnouts up into third gear, its pretty sick. i feel like thats a pretty good shtf truck.
the nice thing about diesels too is that, theyll run on damn near anything combustable; so when the diesel runs out theres alternatives.
Look for the movie “The Coconut Revolution”, it will answer this question if you really want to know what is the most adaptable to a complete breakdown of industrial infrastructure.
Drove a Diesel for a while. I currently have a gas vehicle.
Gas is quicker off the line.
Diesel was more expensive to work on and alot dirtier.
For serious mud, I think gas would be better (quicker punch).
For commming fuel issues, I think diesel would be better (biodeisel).
Someone will have to run the milages vs. fuel cost numbers. I think they are pricing fuel so that the price per mile are very close.
All told, I think it depends on the vehicle. I am thinking about camper purchase and I am thinking diesel might be better for this function, but my daily driver I like gas.
dont confuse modern diesel engines with the diesel engines of days gone by.
or worse, dont confuse good ol’ #2 with ULSD, they aint the same.
The days of pouring “casenhead” into your tank and driving off are gone, modern diesel engines are more finiky than gas engines.
If you are buying a brand new truck and are not buying something they have marked down because they really want to get rid of it, a diesel engine adds between $8k and $13k to the cost of the truck which means higher sales tax on it and insurance.
Overall, I think gas is your better bet. Especially if you’re buying a modern vehicle. All the theoretical advantages of diesel aren’t going to be found in an widely available vehicle.
For one, the selection of 4x4 SUVs available in diesel is very limited. A quick check at Edmunds.com shows 4 currently available: A BMW, 2 Benzes, and a VW. All of which are made to let your trophy wife haul your overscheduled kids to soccer practice, not your gear to a bug-out location. High priced, high maintenance, overly complex and not really built for serious off-road use.
If you step back in time a bit, some recent diesel SUVs on the market might be a Jeep Liberty (blah) or the one recent contender I might consider, a '00-'05 Ford Excursion (yeah, the big-ass Super Duty SUV). They had the 7.3L from 00 to 03 and then the 6.0 from '03 to '05. The 7.3L is noiser and has less power but I remember there were some teething issues with the 6.0s. The 7.3s have a pretty solid reputation and they were used for quite a while so parts availability might be better – there have been a lot of them on the road. It’ll probably be hard to find a good low-mileage diesel Excursion for sale, though.
The Excursion might work for a spare, seldom driven SHTF rig type vehicle. I don’t think it would be a good choice at all for a SHTF-ready daily driver, unless you’re really dedicated to the concept with your head, ass, heart, and wallet.
Gas all the way. Fuel availabilty, parts availability, and in current production vehicles, reliability, are all plusses for the gas motor SUVs – if you choose the right one.
Depending on your needs for how much crap you need to haul, a mid-size gas SUV would be a better bet for a prepared daily driver. Toyota 4-runner or FJ Cruiser, Nissan X-Terra or Pathfinder, or even a 4-door Tacoma or Frontier pickup with a camper shell or hard tonneau cover (either of which basically converts it to a SUV with a divided cargo area, pretty versatile). All of those are manueverable, have good off-road ability, durable, reliable, plenty of power, and are relatively fuel efficient (your mileage may vary…literally ;))
I think about the perfect daily driver SHTF vehicle would be an '01-'04 4-door Tacoma with the off-road package. Camper shell optional. The 3.4 V6 is very reliable (shop for one and see how many are out there running around with 200k+ miles and still going), the truck is very capable off-road, on-road manners are fine, it’s inconspicous, there are many on the road so long term parts scavenging possiblilties are good, they’ve got pretty solid payload capacity for their size, and there are lots of aftermarket options to customize to your needs without having to engineer and build from scratch.
There are limited choices in diesel SUV’s. And the ones that are available are not really meant for strenuous off-road use. They are also much more expensive.
For any amount of off-road use, diesels have a bit of a disadvantage because the engines are much heavier than their gas counterparts.
To get a diesel in a vehicle suitable for off-road use, you have to get a pickup from Ford, Dodge, or GM. While each has it’s pro’s and con’s, they are all much more powerful than any gas engine available. But that power is not usefull unless you are towing or hauling. I use a GMC 1 ton diesel to tow my 13,000 lb 5th wheel. They are also about $7k more expensive than the same truck with a V8.
Overall, I think unleaded gas is more widely available. In cities and urban areas, not every station has diesel. Most rural stations do have diesel for farmers and ranchers.
If I was going to select a 4wd vehicle for general off-road use, my top two choices would be a Tacoma or a Jeep Wrangler. I prefer pickups because of their higher cargo capacities.
There are diesels out there, but it all depends on what you consider a BOV.
Coconut Revolution = http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1192286025577999101
Better copy http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9073157933630784238
I suppose I should elaborate. I already have a 4x4 gas pickup, so I’m not going to get another. Problem is, stuffing all 5 people in there is misery. Plenty of room for stuff, though. I’m not going to go 4wheeling in it, I want the 4x4 because I’ve only used it a handful of times down here, but when I did, it was the only thing that worked. Back up north (where I may end up in a bug out scenario because pretty much my wifes entire extended family lives in one town) I used it all winter long. So 4x4 is a must for me.
I have 5 people in my immediate family, and 3 more who live less than 1/3 a mile away. If I am bugging out, I would anticipate needing room for 8, plus a few dogs and supplies. I can fit everyone in my wifes minivan, but hopping a curb to get out of a bad spot is impossible.
The Ford Excursion is high on my list because of its size. I know alot of people don’t like it because of its size, but I don’t care if I have to walk an extra 50 feet at Best Buy because I needed alot of room to park. I’ve read about the 7.3 vs 6.0 situation, but it isn’t controlling with regards to any decision.
Regarding gas vs diesel in mileage and costs, I have already done the calculations once before for a VW my wife was looking at. It was a wash, we are talking like maybe $60 difference over the cost of five years.
I am more concerned about availability. Yes gas is everywhere, but if people are evacuating, gas is going to sell out pronoto. Not many diesel vehicles are on the road, so stations should have some, and unless I am mistaken military vehicles are diesel, so I could possibly buy/beg/borrow/steal some from them if it gets bad enough.
I think the only vehicles that fit those specs are a full size, three row SUV like a Suburban or Excursion. Unless you buy a used Excursion, you will only find gas engines. If buying new, I would find a 2500 Suburban (more cargo capacity, more towing capacity, better brakes and transmission). One of the diesel SUVs from Europe could work, but I don’t know how much room they have inside for 8 people, plus gear. I guess another option is a 4wd conversion on a diesel van.
I still think there will be more surplus gas than diesel. I live in a semi urban area, and of the 8 I pass between me and the highway, 5 have diesel. But all have gasoline in 3 grades. So, there are 5 underground tanks of diesel between me and the highway, and 24 underground tanks of gasoline. Of course I don’t know the total capacity of each tank, but you get the picture.
Also keep in mind that most large emergency vehicles like ambulances and fire trucks run on diesel. And in the case of large evacuations, I would imagine buses would be used which also run on diesel. So do most big generators and service vehicles like utility trucks. Where are they going to get it? The same place the guys with large pickups and RVs like me are going to get it. The goverernment may stockpile some of it, but if you are in line at a gas station and a firetruck shows up along with a couple of patrol cars who gets to the front of the line).
If you really want a diesel, here are four things I would do in order of effort and tinfoil thickness:
Map out the major truck stops along your likely evacuation routes (including alternates). Truck stops have huge underground tanks, and higher flow valves. They can fill a 35 gallon tank in just a few minutes.
Get a membership to Pacific Pride or some other commercial fueiling service. In my region Pacific Pride has numerous member only automated pumps that won’t see a lot of traffic by Joe Citizen. The downside is that if the power or phone lines are down, there is no one to pay in cash that will activate the pumps.
Get auxiliary tanks for your vehicle. On my truck, I can replace my 34 gal tank with a 63 gallon tank, then add a 90 gallon tank to the bed. With that much fuel I can drive 1500 miles towing my trailer, or almost 2500 without it. That way I can go a long way without worrying about fuel, and top off when the opportunity presents itself.
Apply for a license to maintain a large diesel tank on your personal property for farming purposes. Rig the tank in a utility style trailer. That way you can put your evac gear for you and your family in the trailer and keep several hundred gallons of fuel in the tank. Then just hook up and take off.
avoid anything with the ford/international/navistar 6.0L diesel in it. my dad had an 03 f350 with one in it. this truck was babied, from when we bought it new in 03 to when we traded it in, in 08, this truck had pulled our fifth wheel twice. at 60,204 miles the damn thing started self destructing.
the injector pump went bad, turbo housing was loose, all eight injectors needed replacing… there was other stuff wrong too but i dont remember, seems like there was something wrong with the heads.
the truck needed over $10,000 worth of work, so we fixed it and immediately traded it in for a 08 dodge 3500 dually 4x4… with a cummins of course. my dad and i have since ripped all the emissions controll shit out.
buy a surplus hummer H1, perfect shtf truck.
8 people 1 vehicle
Have you considered a military 6x6 truck?
I have never had one, but for the cost I would almost consider it a nice stand by vehicle that rarely gets used.
If you use an older diesel (at least one that does not have all the particulate crap and maybe a generation older – I am not an expert), depending on where you are at, you can use the heating oil in all your neighbors tanks for fuel (well filtered of course) in a SHTF type situation (don’t do it for normal use – you get caught with untaxed fuel you are in deep dodo). The newer engines with all the crap and extra high pressure might not work on fuel oil, but an older diesel would. Again, it all depends on where you are at. If fuel oil is a common heating source in your area then think about that.
For me there is no choice but diesel.
i think some great SHTF trucks/SUV’s for bugging out would be a ford ranger, toyota tacoma, toyota FJ Cruiser, toyota 4 runner, jeep wrangler. these are all more compact vehicles that handle the trails really well, however, they arent so great for piling a bunch of people in.
i have an old 94 ford ranger that i got in highschool, and its still with me today in college. its a 2wd and its got 239,000 miles on it, it needs some work, however, the trucks been great and ive been considering doing a solid axle swap up front and making it a 4x4 and dropping a small block v8 in it. its a real simple truck and i think it would make a great bug out vehicle.
You’ve got some information mixed up. The 6.0 was not available until the 04 model year.
Hummers are cool, but not enough room.
I’ve thought about a 6x6 truck before, mostly because from what I have read they can run on lots of different fuels. Downside is from what I’ve read, they are not exactly reliable.
Steal fuel from your neighbors :eek: WTF that’s horrible advice
1st I don’t how it is around your neck of the woods but you try that sh*t around
here somebody going to put your dick in the ground for you and take what ever supplies you spent the last 10 years hoarding.
Look you can get diesel delivered to your property in 55 gallon steel drums stored that way it will last a long time all you need is a hand pump to get it out. Just store the amount you think you would need.
I am not saying steal fuel from your neighbors who still live in their homes. Get real. In a SHTF situation, in those areas where fuel oil is common for heating, there will be a lot of abandoned homes and stuff like that. In a real crisis SHTF type situation. In that case there would be lots available.
In a normal crisis, yes, you can store fuel etc. Which is what I plan on doing eventually (right now in a rental house with no place to store). I plan on picking up 20-30 of the military style 5 gallon containers and storing in that so that I can easily rotate the fuel and also carry and transport it.
Don’t quote me on this, but I believe there are limits on how much fuel (especially gasoline) a person can store at a residence. I think the limit is 10 gallons. Who enforces this I don’t know. The obvious exceptions to this are farmers or land owners who get special permits for larger tanks, and people who use fuel oil to heat their homes. Also keep in mind that fuel goes bad after a certain amount of time, sometimes just a fuel weeks. So plan on either using the fuel and refilling the cans, or adding a fuel stabilizer.