Hello all…I am building an AR15 A2. My question: Is there a gas piston out there that you can use the A2 FSB? If so, could someone point me in the right direction. The reason I am asking this is I want an A2 simulare to what I used in the service.
I really cannot answer your question (as I am not up to speed with all the various piston manufacturers), but my questions is why not build a replica gun (which wouldn’t have had a piston in it either)?
C4
Like Grant stated, if you’re building something similar to what you used in the military then it won’t have a piston system. That said, I believe Osprey has a rifle length piston system that uses a standard front sight base.
Yes, Plus 1 ABNAK,
About Osprey… pretty sure they can hook you up NO Problem.
Peace Jeff
The A2 you may have used in the service has a FSB, a gas tube and a gas piston inside the Bolt Carrier Group.
This is a proven, very reliable, low cost system.
Why would you want to change that?
My point as well. Gene Stoner went to great lengths to integrate the piston into the bolt and carrier, reducing parts count, reducing reciprocating mass, and keeping the reciprocating masses in line with the bore.
If you read his patent on Google, it is brilliant. An external piston is a ham fisted way of undoing Stoner’s genius, IMHO.
Maybe he wants a finicky gun.
Yeah go and ask how many vets have lost buddies because of Gene Stoners design.
I want what I had in basic but a cleaner one. I know myself how filthy the action gets being deployed twice to Iraq. I don’t want a system that will gum up when needed the most. The Gene Stoner design is fine and dandy for killing paper but not in oh sh+t situations.
I also am not one of those Fobbits who bought a designer diaper for my weapon while in Kuwait.
Piston ARs are far and away the most problematic AR15s… even more so than the bottom feeder direct gas creations (LWRCi, Olympic Arms, et al).
Members here can have just about ANY AR they want, and you’ll rarely find someone here running any sort of piston. It’s not because we’re not enlightened… the idea came and went because is just doesn’t work very well. Some will argue that HK somehow made it work, but I’ve never shot one of their guns.
I take it you have not heard of Pat Rogers’s Filthy 14. Full story in SWAT with pictures is here, but long story short, a 16" BCM mid-length DI weapon fired 28,905 rounds before it was cleaned for the first time; malfunctions were minimal, with almost all being parts issues, since the goal was to shoot the gun to failure (extractor spring spring replacement at 13,010 to fix some FTEs, and bolt lugs breaking at 16,400). The general consensus among SMEs remain that an adequately lubed DI AR will run just fine, cleanliness be damned (like most weapons, it is far more preferably to run it dirty and lubed than clean and dry), and that piston driven ARs have the advantage only if running suppressed, as a shorty, with large amounts of full auto, or a combination of those three.
The experience of most here is that a properly built and maintained AR is as reliable as the day is long.
What was your personal experience with ARs in Iraq?
Did you experience any malfunctions?
How was your weapon used and maintained?
OP, how do you feel about the M14?
When? Vietnam? Currently? Nothing wrong with the design. Poor ammo, poor maintenance, lack of lube, etc are really the culprits for it not running.
The BEST piston AR ever designed (HK 416) has people that strongly do not like it (.Mil guys). With that said, no retro fitted piston gun is going to be as reliable as a BCM, Colt, etc A4. So if you are not buying a 416, I would say pass on the piston design.
C4
They probably died because of lax preventative maintenance schedules, poor information and training passed down by ncos, and possibly if you’re talking about Vietnam, some brilliant decision to change powder and barrels away from the original stoner design.
Regarding Vietnam, not only did the initially issued M16s not have the proper (per stoner’s design) chrome lined bore and chamber, but the rifles weren’t even issued with a cleaning kit. The scuttlebutt was that the rifles were self-cleaning and didn’t require regular maintenance/cleaning etc. Amazing that a greater % of the rifles didn’t fail with that kind crap floating around.
AR is junk. Throw that thing in the trash and get a Mosin. Thats what the troops did in Korea when the piece of crap AR failed them.
Andrew can articulate this better than I can.
Well this one certainly is dying a slow death…
Are not piston systems proprietary systems? I get the feeling reading different read’s that some people do not know what it will mean down the road when something breaks. Am I wrong. Vern
ARs were issued during the Vietnam unpleasantness, did not see service in the Korean conflict.