Full disclosure take 2, a poll

Let’s be clear this time. If you intend to post in this thread you should expect that your own bias and industry connections may be questioned. If you are incapable of answering those questions in a straightforward manner, you probably shouldn’t post here, or just answer the poll if you’d like and move on.

[ul]
[li]I have never received freebies over $100 and think that all reviewers should fully disclose how they obtain items.[/li][li]I have never received freebies over $100 and don’t care how reviewers obtain items.[/li][li]I have received freebies over $100 and think that all reviewers should fully disclose how they obtain items.[/li][li]I have received freebies over $100 and don’t care how reviewers obtain items.[/li][/ul]

For our purposes here,
“obtain” means purchase out of your own pocket, get on loan until the review is complete, or get for free as compensation for your review.
“freebies”, in turn, means something you get to keep without paying for it after a review.

ETA:
pardon the bad grammar in the poll itself. I’m limited to 100 characters. Options in the post here are how I intended to word them.

I think at any price the method of acquisition should be mentioned. For every item being discussed, the value is very important. Without knowing how it was obtained, or their take on its value, the consumer who does have to pay may or may not be able to take the review for what it is worth.

I should say that I didn’t mean to imply only items over $x should be disclosed, I only wanted to put a limit on the amount in the poll because everyone who’s ever been to SHOT or similar has received something for free, even if not intended as a review item, and many have gotten in on pre-release freebies etc. $100 was kind of arbitrary on my part, but it was a round number and the break point at which I think most companies, and people, wouldn’t bother mailing it back once used.

I would still think it means something. If you are comparing a magazine pouch that costs $50 that was free and are comparing it to most pouches that cost around half of that, I would like to know if you feel the $50 pouch is worth the price over the other alternatives.

I just wanted to clarify that the $100 in the first post wasn’t meant to mean that people shouldn’t disclose at any amount.

It gets rather difficult to nail this down. There are some guys who get a lot of free gear…as in so much free gear that company A’s contribution is not inclined to bias him because company B gave him a free widget too. So when he’s got 8 different versions of something he got for free, it makes it difficult to think that he’s giving company A’s product the thumbs up just because it was free.

I don’t really care if someone got a piece of gear for freeI just care about whether or not they are honest in their review of it. I can figure that out by looking at their history and reputation. The shills always out themselves through a pattern of behavior.

JW777 —

No industry connections. No free guns. A couple of free training courses (I still had to provide ammo and lodging…some of the “free” courses were first come/first served invitations to everyone…it should also be noted that in all but one case I’ve done free classes with instructors/outfits that I’d already spent a considerable pile of dough with in the past), a reduced price Battle-Comp (the CEO called me up and asked me to give it a try and since he’s a cool dude I said yes), free trigger time on the PT.com P30, a standing discount at G&R Tactical (goes along with the mod job), some decent SWAG from training courses (PMags, TW25 lube, t-shirts, etc) and a free Surefire light as a Christmas gift from Grant.

If anyone out there is all fired up to actually start sending me free guns or ammo, by all means drop me a line. I can shoot 50,000+ rounds of free ammo in a year too, you know!

I agree with this:
I don’t really care if someone got a piece of gear for free…I just care about whether or not they are honest in their review of it. I can figure that out by looking at their history and reputation. The shills always out themselves through a pattern of behavior.

Here’s another consideration. “Free” is one classification. Stiff discounts are another and are not included in the poll. Just make the review honest. I rarely see tough reviews in print- be it gun blogs or large gun magazines. I will say that the car magazines do a better job of this than gun magazines.

I think most reviewers and gun rag writers are universally bad. Kokalis is perhaps the only one who has actually used any of this stuff in the real world and he did that a long time ago. But, at least he has the background. Few writers really know why this stuff is any good except they may have taken it to a class one time. Compare that to the guy who torture tested it at Natick, ATC, SFAC, SFARTEC or his last two rotations in ‘the box.’

I get lots of free gear from my rich uncle Sam. I also purchase a lot of gear for my organization. One of the things that never seems to come up in these reviews is ‘value’ of a piece of gear. Some gear is worth every penny. But, a lot of this stuff is way over priced for what it actually does. I think Surefire flashlights and Benchmade knives fall into this category. When you get them for free you don’t get a real sense of whether they are really ‘worth’ the premium price.

I own a lot of Surefire lights and Benchmade knives. But I didn’t pay for one of them. In this particular case, I am not sure that a Surefire is doing anything better that a Nitecore or Fenix light is at half the price or better. Benchmade makes great knives but if you were going out of pocket I would tell you to buy a CRKT or a Cold Steel knife for less money and equal quality.

I am going to take issue with this statement. I used to consult for a Surefire competitor. I got their stuff for free. Every SF light I have, I have paid for. I break things, frequently. When other cops have their, “Just as good as,” Nitecore and Fenix lights break but my Surefire X300 or 6P LED keep working, it’s worth every penny. Is the X300 worth the $250 MSRP? Probably not, that’s why I shopped around and got it for $189. I don’t have a lot of money to waste on multiple gear purchases AND I can’t afford to have gear, especially white light, fail me on building clears, etc. As a professional user, SF is worth the money, to me.

Back to the original topic: I have done a couple recommendations on other sites. I try to disclose any relationship I have with the company. I think all reviewers should.

I have never received any free gun stuff, but I have gotten my fair share of free/discounted go fast stuff for my car.

In return for free/discounted labor and R&D I have the name of the shop on my car, front and back. The car has been in magazines and is well known to promote this shop. I have been asked “what did you pay” and I honestly do not feel comfortable answering that questions be if free, or at a discount. But when I promote the shop if asked I do say that the stuff in my car was done for me at friend prices.

With raceing tho, the performance of the parts is easy to measure, be it a dyno number or a track time, so regardless of how much I promote or recomend something, if the car does not run faster or make more power, its not worth it. With the AR stuff, a lot of it is performace based, but a lot is also subjective, making an opinion worth more, and knowing how that opinion was formed, ie influence of free stuff, is more important.

since i have a review site, i’ll chime in here. i think that honesty in all aspects of a review is a good thing, whether it pertains to how the item was obtained, what kind of compensation is being exchanged and just as important, the reviewer’s frame of reference.

i’ve never considered items sent for review as ‘freebies’, since time and effort is exchanged, and i don’t consider my time as free. to me, a ‘freebie’ is something you are given with no obligation to do anything in return. in other words, it actually IS ‘free’. but, you could always argue that the company hopes to gain favour with the freebie, so any word of mouth passed along is favourable, so some ‘return’ is hoped for.

but, for the sake of this discussion, i’ll call items sent out at no cost ‘freebies’.
do i get freebies? absolutely. a lot of what i review is sent out with the understanding that it is provided at no cost, not returned, and it is in exchange for my time and effort. i would not be able to carry on my website if that weren’t the case - i wouldn’t be able to afford it. my only obligation is to write an honest review. that is one of my conditions when accepting items - that my opinion can not be censored, good or bad. i’m happy to say that just about all of the manufacturers i’ve dealt with have given me the go-ahead to ‘tell it like you see it - we just want an honest evaluation’.

why don’t i return stuff? because sometimes problems don’t arise until later down the road. and if it’s used enough, the manufacturers don’t really want it back. also, it’s useful to have items on hand as reference. i often get asked questions a year down the road, and need to refer to them to answer them.

my website is a hobby. i have a full time job and a family (with a 2-1/2 year old toddler). about 80-90% of the ‘free/hobby’ time i had before my son was born is now gone. my financial obligations have also changed. my hobbies are low on the priority list - mortgage and providing for the family are at the top, and pretty much take up everything i earn.

my website has been around long enough where it generates interest from companies looking to get their products featured. i turn down about half of them for two main reasons:

  1. i haven’t got enough time to cover everything
  2. i’m not interested in their products

my hobby is based on my own personal interests and biases. i like nice stuff like everyone else. given a limited amount of time, and 5 different items offered for review, i’ll naturally pick those that appeal to me the most, if i only had to choose 2. if i’m going to sacrifice time that i could spending doing something else i want to do, it’s got to be worth it. i’m not going to spend it on something i don’t like or am not interested in. that’s why you don’t see bad reviews on my site - i pick items that i’m pretty sure i’ll like. it’s not like consumer reports where writers are paid to evaluate items supplied to them. my site is a personal one - more akin to ‘my favourite restaurants’ or something like that. i know what i like to eat, and avoid stuff i don’t. i have developed the same taste in gear over time to know my preferences.

i love the outdoors and shooting sports. i also enjoy writing reviews, and providing information to consumers. i’ve been approached to write articles for magazines before, but i decided a while ago against that, actually because i felt that it would make me less credible, rather than more, if i became a paid reviewer.
just like everyone else who doesn’t have a lot of free or spare time, everything i spend my time on has to be justified, and there has to be an incentive to do so.

on my ‘about’ page on my site, i do have information and a disclosure “Items featured on this site are mostly supplied by the manufacturer in return for my time and effort. Some are personal purchases. There is no such thing as a ‘free’ item. It’s ‘free’ if I don’t have to work for it. Often, the time I spend on reviews exceeds the monetary value of the item. Items supplied or purchased get the same review - my obligation is to the consumer first. I do try to help manufacturers improve their products, and if there’s any issue with the product, I’ll take it up with them and give them a chance to correct it before I post my writeup. If anyone thinks that I cannot be unbiased if an item is supplied to me by the manufacturer, I’d be happy to take a donation from that person to purchase the product they want reviewed, thereby eliminating any perceived bias.”

honestly, i have all the gear i ‘need’. i can’t afford to spend money on more gear, solely for the purposes of providing free information for other people. the support of manufacturers is the only way the site can keep going. the donations to my site don’t amount to enough to cover web hosting, let alone fund any gear purchases. it may not seem like the perfect, completely objective solution, but it’s the only one that works for now. i’ll keep going at it as long as i still enjoy it, people still feel that it’s relevant, and that people benefit from it.

as for frame of reference, i’m not an expert - just an average joe. as long as people know that about me, how i’ve used the item, and my (lack of) real world qualifications, i still feel that they can get useful information from my reviews. the detailed descriptions of feature and photos are something everyone can benefit from - my opinion, maybe not as much. i’ve always said that if i seem unqualified to express my opinion, and it’s worthless, just look at the pics. i provide this information for free, no one has to pay for it. and unless they do, this is the only way the site can keep running - with manufacturer support.

am i biased? another ‘yes’. everyone is. i have developed my own set of preferences based on my experience, shooting style etc. i don’t have the depth of experience that someone in LE or the military has, but over the years, i’ve had a wide breadth of exposure to many different products, many from competing manufacturers. the exposure to many different items from competing manufacturers helps in keeping some objectivity, IMHO. it’s also difficult to determine whether something is the ‘best’ or ‘better’ unless you’ve used similar items.

if i had an unlimited budget and bought everything, you’d pretty much see the same stuff on my site that’s there. whether it’s ‘worthit’ to someone else is always subjective - something i can never answer for anyone else. would i spend my own money on the stuff that’s on my site? i do, and yes, if i felt that i wanted or needed it, and that i could afford it.

industry relationships - it’s impossible NOT to develop relationships with companies over the years, even if you’re only a customer and not a reviewer. objectivity can still be maintained, and i try to do so by featuring competing companies on my site.

so, in summary, full disclosure in all aspects of reviews is a good thing, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting an unbiased, objective review. neither does free product vs. purchased guarantee it, as some of you have pointed out. purchasers need to justify where their hard-earned money goes and their decisions. what i do notice is that owners of purchased products tend to go more to the extreme as to praising or criticizing the products. it’s only natural, as you’re very happy when you’ve made a good purchase, and furious when you feel that you’ve been gipped.

i think that in the end, you have to take each review based on the writer’s pattern, reputation, track record, along with the background info (disclosures). and, use your own judgment accordingly. sorry for the lengthy post.

Patrick, I’ve run into you a few times, your attitude and comments were always very professional, which is more than I can say for some who end up working booths are SHOT.

An equipment review where the writer paid full price, or got it for free makes no difference to me. If its a fluff piece, it doesn’t matter how they got it. If the reviewer kicks the crap out of the items and has real world knowledge and/ or has used it in real world events, that shows as well.

Credibility comes with a a price tag that isn’t paid in currency.

MM,

We were posting at the same time, your reviews are unique and stand out from others. I consider your information credible, and guys who know me understand I don’t say that lightly.

You have a good writing style, and good pictures, but I am forced to hate you anyway because I think its highly possible that you have more cool toys than me… :smiley:

now you KNOW that’s untrue.
thanks for kind words, as always stick. ditto.

I think to do a review the reviewer, should purchase the item, "off the shelf ".

If a piece of gear, gets sent out for a review, I would suspect it gets a good going over before being sent out.

Buying off the shelf, would represent the review as being more realistic.
As well as not being tainted buy getting the item “prepped” for review, or buy getting it for free.

Then how does a reviewer get that item ahead of the curve then? Ultimately pre-production samples have to go out for review or reviewers are behind the times.

I’m not Stick or MM, at best I wrote a little mini-review of the Gear Sector offset scout mount, did I get to keep that mount? Yes. It wasn’t sent to me for review anyways, I just took it upon myself to photograph it and give my impressions of Jason’s work.

I think anyone who has any connection to the industry gets freebies occasionally, I know I’ve picked up a few things that way in the past. However at least for ME, it’s always been a “we may have an extra you can run on such and such gun.” I don’t think Rob’s original question is about if freebies are bad. Hell no. But for those reviewing them as a side job, or at least positioning themselves as a source of reliable reviews disclosure is probably a fair question.

I think if someone reviews a T-1, gives it a great review, that they got to keep, and hates on an EOTech that they had to give back…well then I think that calls in to question the validity of the review process.

Interesting take.

I actually view it, at least for myself, completely the opposite. By being paid for the article, rather than the item, I believe that the writer has an obligation to the reader, not the vendor. One could argue, I suppose, that the writer has an obligation to the publisher since they are the one cutting the check, but at least for me, especially given that I don’t pay my bills with the measly checks the publishers send, I have a strong sense of earning my “pay” by doing a thorough review and reporting on it honestly.

I like MM’s reviews, but his nick is irritating to me.

i should have been more specific. i wasn’t referring to the issue of obligation to reader, publisher or manufacturer, but more about the general suspicion many people have of magazine writers and articles (founded or unfounded), that’s all. i didn’t want to be ‘lumped in’ with the rest of the gunwriters. credibility of otherwise honest writers has been eroded by fluff pieces, so hopefully, you can turn that opinion around with your articles. plus, i don’t really do gun reviews - mostly parts/accessories.

whether a person is compensated for his time by a paycheck or getting to keep the product, it all boils down to the individual and his honesty/integrity.

addressing another point brought up, about purchased ‘off the shelf’ vs. supplied - purchasing independently off the shelf seems like the most objective option, but the question is - who funds it? the reviewer? unless he’s very wealthy or subsidized by someone else like a magazine, it’d be very difficult to afford. i definitely wouldn’t be able to. who benefits from the reviews? the reader, and depending on whether the review is positive, the manufacturer of course (in increased sales). if the reviewer isn’t compensated in some way for his time and effort, the incentive is quickly lost. unless again, the reviewer has the money and time to do it for no personal reward except that he just likes to do it. one option might be to have a membership-only site, that charges a fee to read reviews. that fee would go to purchasing the gear off the shelf. anyways, that’s a road i choose not to go down - i put the burden of the cost of the item on the manufacturer, not the reader, as i have no other source of income. the only other alternative would be just to stop writing reviews, which i’ve considered many times since my son was born. i keep going because honestly, i still love shooting and designing/checking out gear, and from the emails i get, it’s still relevant. i’ve just had give up other stuff to do it.

quietshootr - sorry my nickname (i’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to) irritates you, but i’m actually not at all surprised (and i agree with you) - it’s not very professional and if folks aren’t familiar with the term, they might misunderstand it. there’s an explanation behind it on the ‘about MM site’ page, and it was a nickname i had before i started the site. since i’m not one to take things too seriously, the site name was suggested and it stuck - it was originally meant to poke some fun at myself. in retrospect, if i knew what direction the site was going to go from the start, i’d probably have chosen some other name that sounded a bit more serious, and could not be mistaken for any disrespect to anyone in the military.

Could be worse. You could be stuck with some goofy combination of a cowboy name and a number.