Full Auto Question

[Bobert0989]

I know I’m new to this stuff, but please leave out the “hate-remarks” here. I’m honestly just searching for answers…

What regulations must I look into for the state of KY to purchase a full-auto rifle? I am very interested in purchasing a LWRC M6, but can’t seem to get a straight answer from anyone local about requirements to do so. I’m not worried about SBR requirements so much, as I want the midlength setup (14.5" w/ permanent hider)…

Also, how expensive is it to own a full-auto? I’ve heard people discussing “tax-stamps” on SBR’s, but have never fully caught-on to what they were talking about. Do you pay like $200 a year to own it or something?

Thanks for any and all information! Greaty appreciated!

~Bobby

[bkb0000]

you can only own FA weapons manufacturered and registered before 1986 as a regular guy. manfers and dealers can have demo guns, but that’s whole different situation.

LWRC has only been around this decade, so you’ll never be able to own a full auto LWRC. if you could get ahold of a registered drop-in auto-sear, you could install it into any weapon capable of receiving it. that’s probably the way to go, but RDIASs are hard to find and very expensive.

m16 receivers, gun or not, go from $10,000-20,000… RDIASs, if i remember correctly, usually go for a little less than that, but are basically impossible to find.

So you need to find someone who’s selling theirs, and submit a Form 4 and $200 to the ATF and wait 6 months. the dealer you buy through, and/or the seller of the weapon, will be happy to give you the specifics of how to fill out the Form 4 and the proceedure for transfer.

ETA- just re-read your post… i dont know anything about kentucky law, sorry. the $200 is a one-time tax paid for the “privilege” of owning a title II weapon. the above only applies to NFA-friendly states- kentucky may or may not be NFA-friendly.

[JoshNC]

KY is rumored to be a good state for NFA ownership in general. Right now is a good time to purchase an M16. Prices are down overall.

A non-Colt registered receiver M16 can be found for around $9k.

There are many options for factory Colt M16s.
Colt AR15 model 614 is a great rifle and can be found for around $11-12k
Colt M16 (just stamped M16) can be found for around $11-12k
Colt M16A1 (stamped M16A1) can be found for $12.5-14k
Colt M16A2 (stamped M16A2 and with all A2 reinforcements) can be found for $14-20k depending on the model.

M16A1 and A2 factory original carbines tend to bring more than their rifle counterparts.

A Drop In Auto Sear (DIAS) is also a great option. It allows you to have a lower that is disposable and the registered machinegun which can be swapped out to different lowers. These have been commanding a premium for awhile now. They tend to be listed for $13-15k, though I am really not sure what they are selling for.

You have to decide what is important to you when it comes to an M16. If you want a shooter only, buy a non-Colt registered receiver or a DIAS. Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, Sendra, and others converted lowers back before the '86 ban. A good Sendra is hard to beat. It is a forged lower. I have heard that they can have some slightly tight magwells but this is easily remedied. I would stay away from the cast Essential Arms lowers, but that is just personal preference.

If you want a shooter and a rifle that is a bit more collectible, go with a factory Colt.

I recommend looking on Sturmgewehr and Subguns as M16s, including DIAS are pretty commonly found for sale. You can also start contacting some of the better known dealers to see what they have in inventory.

I have dealt with David Spiwak in Pennsylvania on a few machineguns (www.davidspiwak.com). He is very reliable, easy to deal with, and tends to have reasonable prices as it relates to the market. I have a Colt AR15 model 614 and also a Colt M16. They are both awesome rifles and have provided me with thousands of trouble free fullauto rounds downrange. I would love to pick up a DIAS, but am not in a financial position to do so right now.

If it were me, I would recommed a steel DIAS as they are virtually indestructible and allow you to have no worries as to sustaining damage to your lower. Kaboom? No problem. Fire control pin wear? No problem. Just replace your lower.

[Bobert0989]

Thanks guys. That’s exactly the information I needed. I knew I’d be looking at a lot of money for the firearm, since I saw a guy locally selling a full-auto MP5 for around $5200. I figured a nice M16 would run much higher than that.

Are you required to be Military or LEO to purchase a new auto-rifle?

Thanks!

Bobby

[bkb0000]

@Bobert0989

Thanks guys. That’s exactly the information I needed. I knew I’d be looking at a lot of money for the firearm, since I saw a guy locally selling a full-auto MP5 for around $5200. I figured a nice M16 would run much higher than that.

Are you required to be Military or LEO to purchase a new auto-rifle?

Thanks!

Bobby

what condition is it in? im pretty sure $5,200 is about $10,000 less than they normally go for, in good condition

[Zhurdan]

@bkb0000

what condition is it in? im pretty sure $5,200 is about $10,000 less than they normally go for, in good condition

Damn, my credit card actually flew out of my wallet on its own when I read that price. Bad credit card, BAD!!

[JoshNC]

I am guessing that MP5 is a pre-86 dealer sample at that price. That is even on the low side for a pre-86 dealer sample.

If it is transferable, I recommend you RUN not walk back to that store and buy it. Make sure you determine it is transferable. Ask to look at the forms. Take it apart…is it a sear gun or a registered receiver? Who was the SOT that manufactured it? Does the lower/trigger pack attach to the receiver (just behind the magazine well) with a removable push pin? If you have questions, I am happy to help by email or phone.

If that is a transferable, you owe it to yourself to buy it now.

[11Bravo]

As Iowa is a NO NFA state, no one around here knows.
Hypothetically-

1. If I am the legal owner of a pre-86 legal full auto, can I change it to a burst willy-nilly as I choose? and reverse?

2. If it has a 16"+ barrel, can I swap back and forth with a short barrel?

Basically, if it is full-auto with a 20" barrel is it only a full-auto with a 20" barrel or is it NFA however I want it to work or look?

3. If I buy a full-auto rifle with a short barrel, do I pay the transfer tax on it as a whole, ie., $200 or on the full-auto and on the short barrel separately as in $200+$200=$400?

4. As I understand it, suppressors are separate unto themselves.
   Even if I have the above rifle, if I want a suppressor I have to go back through the process and pay the tax on the suppressor.
   Correct?

Just curious as, for the time, I don’t have hope of any of these.

Thanks,
Greg

[bkb0000]

1. Yes

2. Yes, but the ATF wants you to let them know when you make “permanent” changes to the OAL

3. No- it’s a hiarchy, if you will- machinegun supercedes SBR, so a machinegun = SBR + full auto, in effect. one tax

4. yes- suppressors are a whole seperate NFA item. in fact, even each baffle inside the suppressor is considered “a suppressor,” but fortunately they don’t make you pay a tax per baffle… buncha fuckin retarded assholes.

[11Bravo]

Cool, thanks.
Maybe if we can get shall-issue this year we can start working on NFA.

[Bobert0989]

@JoshNC

I am guessing that MP5 is a pre-86 dealer sample at that price. That is even on the low side for a pre-86 dealer sample.

If it is transferable, I recommend you RUN not walk back to that store and buy it. Make sure you determine it is transferable. Ask to look at the forms. Take it apart…is it a sear gun or a registered receiver? Who was the SOT that manufactured it? Does the lower/trigger pack attach to the receiver (just behind the magazine well) with a removable push pin? If you have questions, I am happy to help by email or phone.

If that is a transferable, you owe it to yourself to buy it now.

I do not know all of the specifics on it, but will definately find out for you guys.

Give you his number for $100, lol. j/k!

Edited: See below post; 1-21-2010

Bobby

[Bobert0989]

@JoshNC

I am guessing that MP5 is a pre-86 dealer sample at that price. That is even on the low side for a pre-86 dealer sample.

If it is transferable, I recommend you RUN not walk back to that store and buy it. Make sure you determine it is transferable. Ask to look at the forms. Take it apart…is it a sear gun or a registered receiver? Who was the SOT that manufactured it? Does the lower/trigger pack attach to the receiver (just behind the magazine well) with a removable push pin? If you have questions, I am happy to help by email or phone.

If that is a transferable, you owe it to yourself to buy it now.

How/why would it NOT be transferrable? How could he sell it if it weren’t?

Not being “in-your-face”, but just inquiring about how he could sell it without transferring it…?

[JoshNC]

@Bobert0989

How/why would it NOT be transferrable? How could he sell it if it weren’t?

Not being “in-your-face”, but just inquiring about how he could sell it without transferring it…?

I would just double check. Look at the form-3. There have been instances where pre-86 dealer samples (only able to be sold to active FFL/SOT) have been mistakenly sold as transferable.

You really should buy it if you can afford it and it is legitimately transferable. That is a 1994 price for an mp5.

[JoshNC]

@Bobert0989

I do not know all of the specifics on it, but will definately find out for you guys.

Give you his number for $100, lol. j/k!

I cannot afford it right now, but if it’s still available, I’ll get a picture and the facts on it and post it back here. All hetold me was that it was a “damned good deal” on it.

Bobby

Email sent your way.

[Bobert0989]

@JoshNC

Email sent your way.

Recieved and replied

Thanks

[Luke_Y]

@Bobert0989

I do not know all of the specifics on it, but will definately find out for you guys.

Give you his number for $100, lol. j/k!

I cannot afford it right now, but if it’s still available, I’ll get a picture and the facts on it and post it back here. All hetold me was that it was a “damned good deal” on it.

Bobby

Forget the rest of these guys… PM ME!!! If it’s legit you can certainly have that “finders fee”.

[Bobert0989]

But I don’t really care. I got my information I was looking for.

As for the MP5, it’s already vouched for, before I get a thousand emails from you guys wanting the information on it.

If the certain person on here decides not to buy it, I will then post it for everyone’s benefit on a new thread, I guess in the Equipment Exchange, if that’s okay with the Mods. Since it’s not MY weapon for sale, they may or may not approve.

Mod’s, please let me know either way so I don’t break any rules.

Thanks for the great information guys!

Bobby

[az_doug]

“you can only own FA weapons manufacturered and registered before 1986 as a regular guy. manfers and dealers can have demo guns, but that’s whole different situation.”

I hate to “nit-pick” but the F/A ban actually went into effect May 19, 1986. There are transferable guns manufactured in 1986, up until May 19.

[bkb0000]

@az_doug

“you can only own FA weapons manufacturered and registered before 1986 as a regular guy. manfers and dealers can have demo guns, but that’s whole different situation.”

I hate to “nit-pick” but the F/A ban actually went into effect May 19, 1986. There are transferable guns manufactured in 1986, up until May 19.

i will never say “before 1986” again as long as i live.

[lwhazmat5]

@Bobert0989

But I don’t really care. I got my information I was looking for.

As for the MP5, it’s already vouched for, before I get a thousand emails from you guys wanting the information on it.

If the certain person on here decides not to buy it, I will then post it for everyone’s benefit on a new thread, I guess in the Equipment Exchange, if that’s okay with the Mods. Since it’s not MY weapon for sale, they may or may not approve.

Mod’s, please let me know either way so I don’t break any rules.

Thanks for the great information guys!

Bobby

I am guessing/speculating that the MP5 you are talking about is really a HK94 that has been customized to be a sear ready MP5. That is judging from the price. Post 86 Samples can be had for aroung $1200, Pre 86 Samples, around 8K, and registered MP5s anywhere from 16K on up.