Frank Proctor on DI Reliability. Very Interesting

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

This is something I read on Soldier System, thought it was interesting on how well DI works and how much a great rifle is a plus. Please enjoy.

http://soldiersystems.net/

Gunfighter Moment – Frank Proctor
May 9th, 2015
How dirty can you Shoot and Gas impingement AR-15 and it still function?
First of all I’d like to say thanks for reading this and caring about shooting. In a recent discussion with some dudes after classes they asked how I like doing open enrollment classes. I absolutely love them because every dude or dudette there is a SHOOTER (regardless of profession or background) and wants to be better. I truly enjoy it and get great fulfillment from seeing that quest to get better regardless of current skill set. Thanks Y’all! Now onto this article.

I have long been a fan of the Gas Impingement AR-15/M-4 vs the piston guns. The gas guns get a bad rep because they dump a lot of carbon in the action causing alleged reliability issues, ect. I don’t dig the piston guns, because they are heavier, have a much less smooth recoil impulse, and I honestly feel they are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. In my experience, which is what I prefer to base opinion on, DI guns will run veeeery dirty.

In a basic carbine class I used to say that the gas guns will run dirty but they won’t run dry for very long; we should pull the bolt and put some oil on all the friction points and a couple other places every couple thousand rounds – still believe that’s a good practice. Last year, I tested out Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil. I was very happy with the way is stayed where I put it and how it provided good lubrication to the gun. After some testing I switched over to it for everything.

IMG_6179

I got a new upper from BCM last year, and I wanted to see how well/long the Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil would work with just a single application. Since around November of last year I have put the rifle through some pretty hard use and put somewhere around 30K rounds through it: 7 classes in deserts, 4 classes in the rain, and a bunch of time in my pelican case that has dust, sand, debris, etc. in it. Well, last week it finally malfunctioned for the first time. I got the gun pretty hot several times and it got to where the carbon in the bolt seized a bit and wouldn’t let the firing pin go forward fast enough.I pulled the BCG out and put some more Lucas oil on everything and went back to shooting. I AM NOT going to clean this gun, I’m gonna keep on shooting it and see what happens should be interesting!

IMG_6234
IMG_6235
IMG_6236

I posted these pics and info on Facebook and some of the comments were pretty funny: E-5s ordering me to do push-ups and such for having such a dirty gun, one fella said it made him want to puke looking at the gun, etc. I can assure those concerned that I have spent many an hour as a private cleaning an M-16 to cleaner than new standards and also plenty of hours after various phases of the Q course cleaning guns to time rather than to standard. After that, I have also put a bunch of rounds – never counted but safe to say over 200k – through an M-4 or AR-15 during some pretty hard use. Simply put, I have a very good personal understanding of what the gun will take and how to take care of it to the point that it will always work when I need it! That’s how I roll with my rifle: reliable but not definitely not basic training private clean.

Thanks Y’all!

-Frank Proctor

20130823-210852.jpg

Frank Proctor has served over 18 years in the military, the last 11 of those in US Army Special Forces. During his multiple combat tours in Afghanistan & Iraq he had the privilege to serve with and learn from many seasoned veteran Special Forces Operators so their combined years of knowledge and experience has helped him to become a better operator & instructor. While serving as an instructor at the Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat Course he was drawn to competitive shooting. He has since earned the USPSA Grand Master ranking in the Limited Division and Master ranking in the IDPA Stock Service Pistol division. He learned a great deal from shooting in competition and this has helped him to become to become a better tactical shooter. Frank is one of the few individuals able to bring the experiences of U.S. Army Special Forces, Competitive Shooting, and veteran Instructor to every class.

All this experience combines to make Frank Proctor a well-rounded shooter and instructor capable of helping you to achieve your goal of becoming a better shooter.

Gunfighter Moment is a weekly feature brought to you by Alias Training & Security Services. Each week Alias brings us a different Trainer and in turn they offer some words of wisdom.

2

It’s too bad the pics didn’t carry over because that’s without a doubt the filthiest bolt I’ve ever seen.

3

Good read. A well made DI AR is infinitely more reliable than any of the piston nonsense out there.

4

But everyone knows AR can’t go 100 rounds with out cleaning :rolleyes:

He is really just confirming something that most of us here known, not to take anything away from the testing and rounds he put through that rifle. Little different from the hell Pat Roger put filithy 14 through, which I have used as an example in the past of how reliable an AR can, when properly made, run. Though I have had more than a few too lazy to read that article because it was “Too long” and just return to saying all ARs are the same and can’t run ever and AKs are the pinnacle of the combat rifle. :rolleyes:

My rant finished. Anyone have the specs on the rifle/upper that Proctor is running? Middy or carbine length gas system? BCM BCG I would assume? Buffer set up? Would be curious to know what all he is running.

5

It’s even more filthy in person. At one class he pulled out his BCG and I got to look inside upper/lower. You could see where carbon buildup was being molded and shaped by moving parts. It was impressive!

6

Actual article with pictures.

Holy Carbon Batman

7

My experience seems to mirror what he’s saying. For what I’ve seen, build quality and the quality of the components has a much greater impact on reliability than whether it’s DI or piston operated.

8

Off topic…but I will second the Lucas extreme duty oil. I too have switched over to it for everything.

9

Good read thanks for posting. I ran one of my BCM uppers for a little over 14,000 rounds without cleaning to prove to some boneheads that an AR doesn’t have to be white glove clean to work. I’d have to look in my log book but somewhere before 15,000 rounds I had a failure to extract so I had to clean it.

10

I have a class with Frank Proctor in a couple of weeks. I hope to get to see this rifle in person.

11

Good lord, that’s a dirty bolt carrier group.
I have recently switched from oil to grease. I am interested to see how it collects and handles grime compared to oil.

12

Thanks for correcting my post, I was trying to figure out how to put it up with pics and then had to start chasing my 1 1/2 yr old around. He’s starting to figure out the child safety locks which I haven’t quite mastered yet.

13

Worse since it can’t hold as much carbon in solution as oil can. Grease is fine for places like bolt carrier rails but the bolt body and gas rings should be lubed with oil.

14

Me too. What class you going to? I’m headed to the one in Colorado.

15

St. Augustine, FL on May 23-24.

16

Dang. The only gun I’ve ever seen as dirty as that and still worked was a 94 Winchester that came off a ranch in Wyoming. I think I got about half a pound of dirt out of that thing.

17

Awesome, another example to show people who complain the ar “shits where it eats.” Although it’s usually stated by people who own 30 pos guns, and talk about them constantly, but shoot 2 times a year.

18

Good luck with that. I tried grease once and only once. It created the nastiest, stickiest sludge I’ve ever seen.

19

Same here and never again.

20

May I ask what kind of grease? I use Tetra on everything, but am going to look into the Lucas he talked about. Btw…the Tetra has never let me down, I love it.