Forward Controls ABC/R Enhancement

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

As many know on this board, I have several contacts in the firearms industry and Roger (Duffy) is one of them. I have been talking with him regarding making an adjustment to his Forward Controls Design ABC/R bolt release.

I have several of these bolt catches on my rifles and I enjoy them very much. I, however, have an issue with the placement of the pad on the bolt catch. For me, this isn’t specifically with Duffy’s bolt catch, it’s all bolt catches.

I, like some, have very large palms and short fingers. This causes me to have to reach for the bolt catch when reloading thus causing me to add an extra step in the reloading process witch of course slows me down.

When I reload a magazine into my rifle, I preform a push of the magazine and then a pull to confirm that the mag is properly seated. When tugging on the mag, it places my thumb closer toward the muzzle than it would be if I would just seat the mag and hit the bolt release.

What I have proposed to Duffy is not to make the ABC/R pad larger, but to slide the pad toward the muzzle about 25% or a little less than 1/4 inch. This would help my issue and also help with left handed shooters hitting the bolt catch when they reach under the handguard to release the bolt.

I will post a couple of pictures to show you what I’m talking about…

In this picture, you can see that my natural hand positioning places my thumb forward of the bolt catch…

Untitled by Cory Fluck, on Flickr

In this photo, you can see what I mean by a left handed shooter reaching under for the bolt catch…

Untitled by Cory Fluck, on Flickr

Other companies make “enhanced” bolt catches but I don’t think that they put much thought into their designs and they don’t really enhance operation of the rifle.

Let me know what you think…

2

Here is a short video explaining what I encounter when I reload.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DduRJVw3EYo

3

ABC/R’s upper paddle is moderately increased in size, and in both directions, without bias. We see plenty of bolt catches with a rearward bias on their upper paddles, we like a balanced approach.

A rearward, or forward bias on the upper paddle for that matter, may address the issues some users have, but for the most part, most users don’t have difficulties accessing it. If we put a forward bias on it, there’d be folks clamoring it’s in the “wrong” direction, or “a solution in search of a problem”. Not that I pay much heed to folks for whom this solution wasn’t designed, I can think of other reasons a forward bias would cause unintended consequences, such as more snag prone, and the mechanical advantage afforded by a lever means the upper paddle will be easier to press, and more torque can be brought to bear, and its cantilevered configuration may cause the bolt catch to pivot off axis.

To wit, our designs don’t emphasize anything or everything being symmetrical. Our muzzle devices (6315, 6310 and 1815) take advantage of asymmetrical ports to maximize gas flow upward.

For a bolt catch, we prefer a non-biased paddles design. ABC/R v3 in 2019 doesn’t have a bias, its lower paddle is increased in size moderately, and in both directions, while still leaving enough stand off distance from an ambi mag catch.

A forward biased upper paddle is doable, I’m afraid there wouldn’t be a lot of interest in it. But I am curious to see what you guys have to say. Throughout ABC/R’s continued development and usage in the hands of users, Cory was the first to ask us to make a forward biased upper paddle. Heretofore there had been some suggestion to either make the upper paddle larger, or with a rearward bias, both had been considered back in 2012 when ABC/R was first conceived, and both were rejected for many reasons.

4

I’ve actually thought the same thing myself and voted yes. That said I can completely see Roger’s point on there’d be folks clamoring it’s in the “wrong” direction, or “a solution in search of a problem”.

5

I like the idea, but am not sure how I feel about application of pressure off axis of the roll pin.

6

That’s why I suggested an addition to the ABC/R line. If it doesn’t suit the person they can get a standard one.

As far as off axis, it won’t be a problem and several manufacturers already do it. They just do it wrong.

7

Cory, I’d like to, the issue is we’d need to make quite a few of them to justify the machine time. I will look into this as an option.

8

This. Train to use what’s there. The bolt catch pins to a couple of little ears with a roll pin. Not something I want to put more leverage on.

Here’s a shop drawing for my super duper bolt catch. :wink:

9

A bolt release with the paddle moved forward would help me. I load my mag the same way- Push. Pull. Thumb the release. Reaching back for the standard release is a stretch. As far as being a solution in search of a problem, it solves a problem for me, albeit a small problem.

10

I’d buy one just to support the effort, as well as try the variation, as long as it still has paddle in the original area. I’m one of those guys that like the original, and the FCD version is great for me as is, but I’m always happy to try to improve on things.

11

17K I love your Snoopy bolt catch :lol:

How much more space would you like to see added to the left? We may simply “move” the upper paddle to the left so as to not increase the size any.

12

Just moving the paddle forward would work for me. I see no reason to keep a paddle in the stock location. If the paddle were moved forward about an inch, I could just run my thumb straight up and not stretch back at all.

Just tossing this idea out there…

13

Corycop - Would the bolt catch work in conjunction with the billet upper in your picture if they moved the pad forward?

14

Im not a fan of the idea. IMHO the feature that makes it so much easier to hit the bolt release is improved angle that makes the bolt release really stick out esp. when the bolt is locked back, not the size of the paddle. If you want a larger paddle you can always try the Geissele bolt catch.

15

I would LOVE to have a bolt release paddle that extends further forward towards the muzzle. I have to strain to hit the release on the Geissele MBC. It’s still better than mil spec, but I wish I had something better. This is a very common lament shared by everyone I speak with, and I talk to a lot of people. I shoot competitively, around 20 local matches and 5-6 major matches per year. I volunteer as RO for at least 8-10 of them. I even come home with a match win once in a while.

@Duffy - give me a reason to dump my MBC’s and I’ll buy 3-4 of your new ABC’s the day they’re released. If they’re compatible with ambi lowers like the LMT MARS I’ll buy another 2.

Here is a photo of my hand in its natural placement when doing a speed reload with a beer can grip. And I have XL hands. Having a paddle that extended closer to my natural thumb placement would be great. And people with smaller hands would be doubly happy. Among my immediate circle of shooting friends, this is something we’ve all wanted for a long time.

ek0eghpl.jpg

16

I don’t MBC isn’t a competitor for ABC/R in any version. Try the current v2 and you’ll see why.

I wrote about it and posted on our site http://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/3d-party-components-compatibility_ep_53-1.html

I will come up with a forward biased paddle, do note though it will be moderately done, just enough to do the job but no more than that, we don’t do over correction like rushed to market products with little thoughts put into them.

Re: MARS compatibility, we approached LMT, its bolt catch is proprietary. We can’t cater to a company that isn’t willing to collaborate on products that benefit their own customers.

17

Good question… in short it probably would because of the angle of the current ABC/R.

For the record everyone…
I do not want a bigger paddle. I would just want it augmented forward (toward the muzzle) about 25%.

18

I have a ton of respect for Bill Geissele but the MBC is just plain wrong.

Turn it around and it would be perfect IMHO.

Well maybe not perfect. There’s always that chance of stuff like this getting snagged on your kit.

19

As a left-handed shooter, I have never done that. Tried it, didn’t work for me. I use the index or trigger finger of my left hand to release the bolt catch without moving my firing hand. So, for me, extending the OEM-sized paddle to the rear slightly is actually beneficial. The larger top paddle of the ABC/R does the trick for me. I would not want the paddle moved forward as it would remove the main benefit that I get from the ABC/R. It would just have to made larger to accommodate both needs.

20

I am not left handed but I do teach left handed shooters. I teach both methods but the trainers that I get advice from use the method I describe. I like to teach a couple options when it comes to reloading rifle or handgun.