I’m filling out a form 1 for a SBR I’m putting together. How do I fill out the “overall” length question? Stock fully extended or collapsed?
I did a quick search and the only answer to a similar question was, “either one”.
What is correct?
It would be with the stock extended. This is what I have always used.
This is the correct answer.
Thanks guys.
As for the, “why your building this firearm” question… i put “For any and all legal purposes”. I’m intereted in what others have put.
Again thanks…
For all legal what? Dude a Form 1 is not something to have a spelling error on.
I have used “To enhance collection and all other legal purposes” in the past.
Used for recreational use and collector item.
No worries, the form was filled out correctly. The post was made on my cell phone, fixed now.
I’m mildly dyslexic, spell check is my friend. 
Why? Wouldn’t it be the shortest length the firearm is. Short seems to be the watchword in SBR. I asked a former leader here and he always uses the collaped length.
SBR = Short Barrel Rifle. An SBR is a rifle with a barrel length less than 16" and does not refer to the overall length.
Wow, ya got me dude, I would have never known that. :rolleyes: Do you have a reason why extended would be the correct answer?
I have no idea of knowing how much knowledge you have concerning NFA weapons and I was trying to eliminate some confusion for you. Obviously you didn’t know what the acronym meant otherwise you wouldn’t have stated:
Short seems to be the watchword in SBR
:rolleyes: Or you’re having difficulties with reading comprehension as the acronym stands for, Short Barrel Rifle. Not SOLR, or Short Overall Length Rifle, for the uninitiated.
There are a few different classifications that I am aware of regarding NFA firearms. They are SBR, Machine Gun, AOW (Any Other Weapon), Rifle/carbine (Title 1) and Pistol (Title 1). The reason for the overall length question is due to the rules & regulations concerning different classifications of weapons and how they fit into these categories.
Feel free to ask any more questions and I’ll do my best to help.
You have no idea what I do or don’t know. Do you know a reason why extended would be the correct answer on a Form 1?
Irishluck, you are 100% incorrect.
(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
An SBR classification applies to a weapon that may have a 16.1" barrel but an OAL of 25.5". It was this condition that got Randy Weaver caught up with the ATF, but in regards to a short barrel shotgun not a short barrel rifle. He cut the barrels to the legal length, but the stock had a childs length of pull and therefore was shorter than the 26" allowed in the SBS classification.
Also indicated in Definition 1c. on the pages of the ATF Form 1 here:
I also use the collapsed length, as it’s the shortest it will get. I have seen a letter floating around instructing another ATF “customer” to use stock extended.
It’s my belief that ATF letters tend to apply only to those they are addressed, because circumstances can vary wildly from person to person.
Well, US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921 defines a Short Barrel Rifle as:
(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
So any rifle that has an overall length of less then 26" is technically a SBR. Now admittedly that would be had to accomplish with a barrel longer then 16" in length, at least in an AR platform.
Oh, seem I was beat too it.
22lr conversion with a 16" barrel and very little extension could do it. :eek:
collapsed length length make sense because it is the shortest possible length, tough not likely to be used in that matter. Many people don’t used it completely extended either, so it could be used anywhere in between.
Seems there is no consensus on the issue. 
Personally, I would call the NFA number tomorrow. Do NOT write a letter for the love of God!!!
Ask them what they prefer to see on the form. They should be able to answer this rather mundane question.
27 CFR 479.11 states “The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.” The ATF interprets “extreme ends of the weapon” to mean all stocks are extended or unfolded to their maximum length.
True, I guess it could be done with a piston system and a very short stock also.
At any rate the point is:
Barrel under 16" or OAL under 26" = SBR