So for the holidays I got the Mrs. A big ‘ol box of AR parts which we then crafted into a pretty sweet ultra-lite AR. It’s her first (and likely only) AR; it was a gift that was a long thought out and planed project that she received this year mainly because she got her first handgun and her CC permit.
So now I am thinking of what the rest of her LBE should look like as I’m hoping we can attend some classes together in the next few years. The goal of the weapon was to make it as lightweight as possible and at 5.4lb I feel that this goal was reasonably attained. The weapon currently sports a single 20 round Pmag. (I know! I know! I’m working on her to start getting more! I told her about Grant’s Pmag sale.)
I am thinking, in the hopes of keeping things light and agile, of basing all her gear off of 20 round magazines. SOE closed topped pouches and ITW Fastmags for her first line gear and either a custom 20 round chest rig or maybe a standard chest rig w/ some sort of filler to keep the 20’s at the right height.
What do you all think? Is a strictly 20 round weapon/LBE system a viable tactical alternative for smaller stature individuals in today’s world?
My in-the-rifle magazine is a 20 round P-Mag. I did it for the same reason… weight. With that said, if I were ever to be forced into the “woods”, I would have four 30 round P-Mags in the pouches. For carrying over the hills and through the woods, a 20 rounder makes more sense.
I use 20 rounders and a Redi-Mag for my “inside” gun.
edited to add: USGI aluminum NHMTG
I have no problems in the least running an OD or BLK 30rd. Pmag in my “go to rifles”, and I do. That said, I will never trust a 20rd. pmag in any of them given the amt. of hiccups I have incurred while running them. I still enjoy them for bench shooting but that is all these days.
The 20rd. pmag is just not the same “pmag” imho, I have fought off this way of thinking but evidence has proved me wrong.
I’d have to go with this post on both accounts. The 30rd has never gotten in the way for me, and I just plain do not trust the 20rd. PMags at all.
I’ve used a them on a handful of ARs and I’ve found that they quite regularly fail to lock the bolt back. I don’t know what Magpul does differently with their 20rd PMags, but whatever it is, the 20rd PMags are seriously lacking.
Never had one single problem with 20rd PMAG’s in at least 5k rounds of shooting them, and that is being really conservative. In fact they get shot more than any other mags lately.
I have had a couple issues with USGI 20 rounders, though.
The 20rd. pmag is a totally diff. design obviously than the 30rd. pmag. I think the main problem w. the 20rd. pmags is the followers…being straight vertically vs. 30 rd. pmags having a gentle curve also plays into it I think.
I rarely get any problems from a standard 30rd. pmag and I go multiple range sessions always w/o having a hiccup w. them if I even expierence one.
I have always at least had a 20rd. pmag fail to lock the bolt back each time out w. them and over the last yr. its been a pita to say the least since failure to feed is much worse than failure to lock the bolt back. Its sucks big time to fail to feed a TAP T2 or MK262 rd. @ 1$ per rd. and waste it…not to mention as I already said I only use these 20’s for the bench and range and the failures just seem to always come around the 5th or 6th shot of the 10rd. group so it wastes ammo and perfectly good groups.(I only load 10rds. at a time in them as well for grouping purposes, so to have to single load the last rd. of the group is a total waste). Anyway, gripe off and just my 2cents and I do consider the 30rd. pmag my mag of choice.
Has anyone run a significant amount of rounds thru the Lancer 20 rounders?
What 20rd mags have proven themselves to be totally reliable?
Can you run MagPul followers in 20rd USGI mags?
I’ve had excellent results from 20rd USGI NHMTG and Colt magazines and carry the rifle with one and 30rd mags in pouches. Never tried to upgrade the 20rd followers with Magpuls.
There’s a quick and easy “fix” for the 20rd PMAGs on TOS.
I did it on mine and also replaced the springs with 44mag’s +10% springs.
Holy cow what rock solid mags they are now. Also did the same with all of my other 30rd USGI and PMAG mags.
I’ve never had a problem with 20-round Pmags and I prefer them to 30-round mags in my super lightweight AR due to the shorter length and lighter weight.
I’ve run a couple hundred rounds (not sure if that’s really significant) through some Lancer 20’s with zero problems.
I’ve run about the same through Magpul 20’s with no problems either.
TangoDown makes a 20rd version of the ARC mag, but since I’ve had a few problems with 30rd ARC mags, I’m not sure I would recommend that like I can for the Lancers.
FWIW, the old Chicom SKS chest rigs work great with 20rnd AR mags. The mags ride at a suitable height inside the pouches, AND the rig itself can mount suitably low enough on the torso to make extraction possible when one considers the significant upper torso difference between male and female… This is important for those of us from the distaff side of life.
I’ve had zero issues with my Lancer 20 rounders. I have 8 and have used them since they started selling them. Great mags. Estimated rounds through the combo of the 8 is about 5K rounds.
never had any problems with my 20s. I use them at the range because the 30 rounds are too long for benching comfortably. When I take classes of course the 30s come out to play
Love magpul but they HAVE to fix the 20 round pmag issues before I trust them. I even started a thread about the issues I had with 20 round in several rifles I had…
20 round mags isn’t a problem and I think a viable option. I prefer 30’s for the capacity but carry two 20’s on my vest carrier at work because the 30’s are too obtrusive. We use an external carrier and the 20’s fit well in relatively small pockets and won’t interfere with the other items I have to carry on duty.
I’ve been using 20 round Pmags for a while. I have 15 of them, two of which I use on duty. I have fired a large number of rounds through them, especially the duty mags, and have never had any failures to feed or to lock the bolt open. I also use the 20’s for handload workups with .223 and several .223 based wildcats (300/221, 7.62x40, and .25-223) without any feeding or bold hold open issues. Sounds like quite a few others have had a different experiences though.
BTW, what is this “Grant’s sale” you speak of? One of my partners asked me yesterday where he could find a good deal on mags.
G&R Tactical.
I just ordered 3 30rders just for the hell of it. BTW, Ive got around 400 rds through my 20rd Pmags w/out an issue, but they are still relatively new. I like the size and weight factor.
Thanks. That’s a good deal, I’ll pass it along.
Heck, I remember when 20 rounders were all there was, and the fwd. assist was in the future…
I have some 20 rounder P-Mags, and prefer them for compactness and handiness. So far they work just fine with my M193 type handloads. They also stash on my person better than the 30s.
I also have a fair complement of 30s, mostly GI but one Magpul.
I think your idea of keeping it small makes excellent sense. Less is more.