Focus on Fornt Sight or Target?

Training Training and Tactics
1

I understand there has been many posts on the subject, and conventional wisdom is to focus on front sight, target should be out of focus when shooting with irons or scope. Pistol shooting emphasis is on The FRONT SIGHT. Using a RDS and clay bird shooting focus is on target.
I know there are a lot of variances with technique, and not everything works for everyone.

The last time my wife shot, she had one of her best shoots. When I asked her what she did, she said focus on the target NOT sights. Its hard to argue with success. All this time I told her what I have always heard Focus on the Front Sight. I have tried both ways with a pistol on paper, and seem to do pretty good either way.

When I deer hunt and we run dogs, my focus goes back to focus on sight or scope, same when I bird shoot, clay or live. Most if not all of my shooting seems to default to both good and bad things I have been taught and done for 40+ years. I will admit some things I do instinctively, can’t really explain it but it works for me.

When someone asks about shooting, the majority of replies are, Focus on the Front Sight. Why when shooting pistols at close distances, CQB/self defense ranges does conventional teachings seem to be focus on front sight? So what is so different between a Red Dot and a front Sight?

I do think with an extensive amount of training most people will default to a target focus in a high adrenaline situation. So if I am correct and an accurate point shoot method can be employed (Hand/Eye coordination), why not?

2

Are you asking specifically for pistols? I’m assuming you are here. Dynamic shooting methods differ somewhat from traditional “bullseye” techniques. The short answer is yes, anyone can point shoot effectively, to a point. I’ve been competing for almost 15 years and I can get acceptable fast hits out to about 7 yards. I can get hits on paper out to about 10, but not acceptable hits by my standards. I’ve seen shooters who can’t get acceptable point shooting hits past 3 yards, and this is at pistol matches. Long story short, at least a flash sight picture should always be the goal past arms length.

There are several things to consider when it comes to focus. How hard to focus, where to focus and when to focus on it. For example, I’ll use a “soft focus” on any target inside 10 yards. As the gun comes into alignment with the target, I switch to a hard focus on the sight. Past 10 yards, I’m focusing pretty hard on a specific spot on the target I want to hit. Only when the front sight gets to the center of the target do I switch to the front sight. This allows me to get accurate hits at the fastest speed. Watching the front sight lift from the center of the target is important in deciding whether the hit was acceptable or not. Too many people look for bullet holes in the target to confirm hits. When doing target transitions, don’t track your eyes to the next target with the gun. As soon as you see the front sight lift from the intended point of impact, cut your eyes immediately to the next spot you want to hit. The gun and head are slower than your eyes, but they will naturally go to where your eyes are looking.

Eye speed plays a critical role as well. An often repeated phrase is that you can shoot as fast as your finger can pull the trigger, but you can only hit as fast as you can see. A good eye strengthening exercise is to focus precisely on a distant spot, then refocus to something at arms length and back again. Three sets of ten reps a couple of times a day will do wonders. I do it in light traffic on my daily commute. I’ll focus on one letter in a license plate, then refocus to the tip of the speedometer needle and back as quickly as I can (obviously don’t do this in stop and go or congested traffic).

This is a pretty good video of me doing target transitions at a match several years ago. Five targets shot center of mass, once each near to far from 1-10 yards, then back through in any order, followed by one more to each head box. Despite the speed, I’m getting a sight picture with front sight focus on each shot. It’s not a perfect run, but all the points were there.

//youtu.be/lfLOxpjBpmo

3

See what you need to see, to get the hits that you need to get. Sometimes it is front sight, the target or a combination of the two. Shooter skill, distance to target, target size, acceptable hit zones are all factors in what type of sight picture and focus that is necessary to achieve the hit that is required.

4

Target shooting I always focus on the target. Tactical shooting I focus on the front sight for quick target acquisition as most scenarios will be at close range. Just what works for me.

5

What do you call target shooting and what is your acceptable level of accuracy? Perhaps we are mixing up terms, but your results will improve if you follow the accepted method of focusing on the front sight when using iron sights and practicing ‘precision’ marksmanship.

Look at it this way: To hit exactly what you are aiming at several things have to occur: the front sight has to be located on that point; while in that position, the top of the front sight needs to be perfectly aligned with the shoulders of the rear sight and centered within the notch of the rear sight; while all this is occurring the weapon needs to be held so the sights and target are aligned as previously described AND positioned in the point of central vision for the eye (this is called SIGHT PICTURE).

If there is any deviation in the proper alignment of the front sight and rear sight the shot fired will not hit precisely where intended.

As an example -I have a bullseye gun with a sight radius of 6.7" - at 25 yards a misalignment of 1/64" (0.015625") will move the strike of the bullet about 2.09 inches. The 10 ring of a 25 yard slow-fire pistol target is only 1.51 in diameter which explains why I haven’t shot that many perfect slow-fire stages.

Continuing the saga, the eye can only exactly focus on one point at a time, so if you focus on the target your sights will become slightly out of focus and your alignment will be less precise.

Obviously the need for precision increases as distances increase. I’d guess that most folks can probably hit okay at 15-20 yards looking through the sights and focusing on the target, but if you are going for A zone hits at that range you better be on the sights, not the target.

6

So what is so different between a Red Dot and a front Sight?

With a red dot sight you superimpose the dot on the target when shooting; getting hits is easier beacuse the red dot contrasts with the target. The optic is also zeroed via the red dot only, nothing to align.

With open/iron sights, even though you focus on the front sight, getting good hits is still dependant on you aligning the rear and front sights properly/sufficiently. If you don’t do this, chances are you will miss.

Comparing a handgun to a rifle/shotgun is also flawed, seeing as minute movement of the barrel by the shooter will result in more deviation at range due to the shorter barrel length of a pistol, than with a rifle/shotgun.

Case in point;

“Point shooting” at an uncovered torso or man sized target on the square range is doable out to a certain distance. However, it becomes problematic if the target you are presented is smaller due to using concealment/cover and/or moving, and point shooting is your default technique.

The likelyhood of hitting a target during those circumstances increase greatly if you use the sights.

7

This.

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8

I’m a bullseye shooter and have shot in the Nationals at Camp Perry. As I line up my shot I align my sights, then focus on the target as I squeeze. Again I am saying it is what works for me.

9

Indeed, trust what you see and work the trigger according. You will see a lot of hesitation on target, trying to get “it perfect” Most can be a lot faster managing the sights and trigger.

10

After a lot of rounds down range and lirs if training I am convinced the number one mist important thing is to get every variable as repeatable as process so the “thinking” is gone and the “doing” is automatic so you can devote your attention to situational awareness in a high stress situation

If you are just having a relaxed time punching holes in paper you can obsess over minutuae, but getting the gun out quickly, on target and engaging with acceptable combat accuracy is the goal in a situation where lives are on the line

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11

Some excellent points guys:

Eye focus and eye speed, I believe are often overlooked. I have looked at vision training years ago when my kids were involved in sports as a method to improve things like hitting, and I thought, wow I bet this would work for shooting too.

I get the front sight must be on target for accurate hits, but MUST be properly aligned with rear sights for Truly Accurate hits! Pistol, rifle and shotgun shooting are all different, but some concepts do carry over. I should have been more clear, and was not considering sight radius, but more of the concept of basically utilizing the front sight as a type of red dot. Agreed at short distance it will work, and as distance increases, accuracy diminishes.

I am also a big believer in training so thinking is gone, and doing is automatic. My classic example is how many times have you walked into a room during a power outage, with flashlight in hand, and turned on the light switch?

Lets face it to be truly very good at anything one must have god given ability, and the will power to practice correctly until the desired results are achieved. There is no doubt in my mind everyone wants to be good at what they do, but are we willing to do what it takes??

12

One must unlearn habits picked up while trying to shoot out a bullseye at a static range slowly analyzing the mechanics. Do that in a gunfight and you are dead. Combat accuracy in the short distances where the vast majority of gun fights take place is the goal and getting the handgun out and into action as quickly as possible to get enough hits, center mass, to stop the threat is key. Practice to win a deadly gun battle not to be the best Fudd at the gun club.

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13

Now ptmccain don’t be a hater. Just because folks aren’t running around in their IDPA ‘shoot me first’ garment doesn’t mean they can’t enjoy shooting. Don’t you ever shoot for fun?

This:

Combat accuracy in the short distances where the vast majority of gun fights take place is the goal and getting the handgun out and into action as quickly as possible to get enough hits, center mass, to stop the threat is key.

Is shortsighted and wrong on two accounts:

First mistake - assuming your gunfight is going to take place at a short distance and only training for that eventuality.

Second mistake - ‘enough hits center mass, to stop the threat’ gives rise to spray and pray shooting. Fact is that center mass hits with a handgun do very little to stop a determined assailant in the immediate term. A quantity of them may ensure his eventual demise, after he takes advantage of 'the deadman’s ten-seconds - if he is focused, drugged, or crazy. Hits to the higher CNS are the only immediate stoppers and they take some degree of precision. Yes, you may achieve a T1/C7 hit resulting in loss of hand control with a full mag dump, but it is more likely if you aim precisely upper center of center mass.

Jeff Cooper once wrote about a graduate of several Gunsite courses who got into a gunfight someplace south of the border. Cooper reportedly asked if he’d seen the front sight during the encounter. The response, ‘I was staring at it so hard I could see the striations on it.’

There are no absolutes - use the sights enough to get the hits you need with the speed you need.

Edited to add - I don’t believe you unlearn anything, you learn additional material to supplement or replace.

14

Oh, definitely, and I enjoy the challenge of being as accurate as possible for this particular human, I just get concerned when people think they are preparing to use their firearm defensively but are really simply poking holes in paper in a nice, calm manner and think if they can shoot out a paper bullseye they are “good to go.”

First mistake - assuming your gunfight is going to take place at a short distance and only training for that eventuality.

Not saying it will never happen beyond a short distance, but the majority of gun fights do occur within 25 feet, most even closer than that.

Second mistake - ‘enough hits center mass, to stop the threat’ gives rise to spray and pray shooting.

No, sir, you are again putting words/thoughts in my mouth and mind. I’m talking about learning how to get your weapon into play quickly and get good solid center mass hits. If you are consistently spraying shots that is not what I’m talking about. As for your claim that center mass hits won’t stop a determined assailant, you may or may not be correct, it all depends on where the hots are going. And, you’ll notice that I made it very clear that you must put as many rounds as necessary to stop a threat. I don’t know how many rounds that is, but you keep shooting until the threat is stopped. I use that phrase “until a threat is stopped” very intentionally. It is self-defense, you are not out to kill somebody, but to “stop the threat.”

If you are going under 4 seconds on a Bill Drill to the head A zone at 5 yards you ARE using the sights.

Again, you are putting words into my mouth. I nowhere said not to use sights.

In other words, I don’t disagree with some of what you said, but you are arguing against points I never made.

And, my point remains.

People who think they are prepared because they can stand still in one place, with no stress, and punch holes in a paper target are fooling themselves. You have to train to win a gunfight, not a shooting match at Granpa’s gun club.

15

So you are saying that there is no correlation between the two? Shooting slow aimed fire for tight groups provides no synergy with regards to “gunfights”?

I strongly disagree with this train of thought. You should be able to do both. They are not mutually exclusive. Only when you have mastered the fundamentals can you really intuitively know how deviations will affect the results down range.

Have you been in a “gunfight” of the kind you are talking about?

16

No, I’m not saying that.

With all due respect, my points are quite clear but you are, in my opinion, choosing quite intentionally to miss them.

I don’t think this conversation is going to progress in any positive way beyond this point since you are choosing to put words in my mouth and twist and distort my words.

McCain, out.

17

Respectfully, you are the one who stated:

One must unlearn habits picked up while trying to shoot out a bullseye at a static range slowly analyzing the mechanics.

and

Practice to win a deadly gun battle not to be the best Fudd at the gun club.

When asked to expound on these comments, you say that we twist and distort your words? And I am not intentionally choosing to miss your points, I disagree with them. You are making some big statements, you should also be able to back them up.

18

After trying multiple methods of sight pictures, I have come to the conclusion that the correct sight picture is the one that lets you get your hits. I find that for me, it’s front sight focus on the dot, not the top of the sight. Under stress, my eye keeps going back to the dot, so I gave up fighting it and looked at the dot.

If hanging out with your wang out, wearing a cheese hat and standing on one foot gets you consistent, accurate, and fast hits, then that’s what you should do. But that could be a problem in a fight, just saying.

19

Well…you would certainly make an impression on those around you at the range while practicing that particular technique.

LOL.

Good stuff.

20

I can shoot acceptably with the [static] target in focus, at least to about 8 yards or so. Beyond that range, or for a level of accuracy that I can more easily accept, that front sight has to be crystal clear. I only recently realized how much of a difference the clear and crystal clear variations could make for me. I also will bring my arms in a loosen my grip a little to shoot further/more accurate - at least for now. Of course this makes follow up shots much slower. FWIW, the SME I took a class with said out of all of the gunfights he’s been in, he never once remembers seeing his front sight/dot. His take on it was that he has shot enough to be at the point to where his brain recognizes a good sight picture subconsciously and he can pull the trigger before he has to consciously find the proper sight picture.