How much and where is it located. I may be interested. Thanks
You have a PM dcsansiraq
I can switch between my Glock, M+P and 1911s and be up to full speed after about 30 minutes or less of dry fire. After a certain point of training, shooting pistols is less about grips and grip angles and more about vision and trigger control.
PS. Out of those 3, get the Glock.
Gringop
The Handguns section is not intended as a place to announce products for sale. If you have items for sale, put them in the Member Sales Forum. Thank you.
If I’m expecting to get into a fight, I won’t bring a FAL, I’ll bring a dozen of my buddies with their FALs (or whatever). The point is, any weapon you carry for possible use in a dynamic situation needs to work, and it needs to be workable SHO and WHO.
CHeck the for sale forum
I was merely making a comment that I was thinking about selling my xd for a glock at my DEALER…which is why I posted nothing further in regards to any transaction, price, anything other than look in the for sale area. The previous poster was asking me about selling it to him.
SHO and WHO? Those are new ones for me, can you elaborate?
Thanks
SHO: Strong Hand Only
WHO: Weak Hand Only
I was afraid that would get people riled up. I know you can’t always plan when you are going to get into a fight! If it was a pretty good bet that rounds would be fired I would bring everyone I know to it:cool: For the record I carry my SA TRP when ever possible and it is ambi friendly;)
I have helped many first time buyers with the purchase of a first handgun and I am usually the first to say don’t take my opinions as Gospel. They are my opinions and experiences that have worked best for me.
First off…I disliked the Glock line of Firearms in the beginning and was a hard sell on thier reputation. I currently own and carry a Glock 17daily and have full trust in its capability.
My first experience was in the way of a live fire Demonstration from a Glock rep who came to the Gunshop/Firing range where I worked at the time. He convinced me to give them a try.
Since then I have owned numerous models of Glocks and have found them to be every bit as accurate/reliable as other similiarly priced handguns on the market. And despite my having smaller hands. I found that the double stack mags of the Glocks fit my hands very well and were natural pointing shooters.
That brings me to my point…at the very least you need to handle all three of the firearms you mention here as being interested in purchasing.
Pick the one that feels best in your hand and gives you a natural and consistent sight picture when you draw it.
I can’t take the credit for this system as I have seen it in print many times over the years…but it does work.
(pick a spot on the wall as you hold the gun loosely with your weak hand.
Dont be in a hurry as you draw it but make sure you have a firm grip. Pull the pistol to eye level and pay close attention to how the sights align for you. Are the front and rear aligned or not. Side to side as well as up and down? Do you have to make changes in how you grip the gun or is it solid in your hand?)
With some firearms aftermarket grips will help which is the only downfall that I see with the Glock…
When you discover which of the three mentioned points the most natural for you…you will have the answere to your question. As a natural pointer is going to be easier to shoot well…ESPECIALLY for a beginner.
Again…this simple test has worked for me in helping many with a first purchase…and honestly I can’t recall anyone complaining that I steered them wrong in almost 12 years of selling guns.
The problem with the “natural point” approach is that a newb who doesn’t know the proper way to hold a gun isn’t really in a position to figure out which gun fits him the best.
[ul][li] His grip/technique will almost certainly change under stress.
[/li][li] His grip/technique will almost certainly change if he practices a few times.
[/li][li] His grip/technique will almost certainly change if he gets formal training.
[/li][li] His grip/technique will almost certainly change when he is firing a live weapon as opposed to holding one at the store.[/ul]
[/li]
The only reliable way to determine which gun works best for you is to shoot each of the three, preferably incorporating one handed shooting, reloads, malf clearances, shooting from cover, etc. in your evaluation.
Barring that, the reality is that as long as you’re buying a gun with a good reputation for reliability, everything else is minutiae that matters a lot more in online discussions than it will if you’re ever in a fight.
I agree that actual hands on shooting is the best and most reliable approach to finding the best firearm for a beginner.
…if however, shooting each is not an option as it doesn’t seem to be for this gentleman nor many of the first timers I have helped…doesn’t it make sense that a handgun (of quality) that is a natural pointer for the shooter…regardles of thier experience level, would be a good standard starting point.
I recently went on the hunt for a handgun myself and the reality of the situation (at least in my area of S.W. Missouri.) is that most gunshops now are keeping only minimal stock levels and thus are relying more on special ordering firearms as a way to keep thier overhead down. Even finding a shop with all three of the listed firearms in stock to handle might be a daunting and impossible challenge to anyone.
And yes…I agree wholeheartedly that with experience, the stress of a real life combat situation and or training with a quality instructor that preferences may change. But this thread was started by someone with little to no experience with handguns at all.
And while this may be an 'Old School train of thought, I hold to it steadfast and have practiced it myself for almost 25 years.
That ones performance and the resulting probability of hits to the vitals will increase in such stress induced situations with a firearm that points like a natural extension of the arm.
I understand where you’re coming from, and I understand it sounds like a better solution than “just pick the one that looks prettiest.” No question. But for a completely unskilled person it won’t make a big enough difference, and for anyone with a reasonable amount of practice and skill it won’t make a big enough difference.
Glocks and SIGs point much differently, yet thousands upon thousands of LE/mil folks are trained to use one or the other without concerns for which points best.
In the hierarchy of priorities, “natural point” just doesn’t rank high in my book.
i know this is a horribly expensive way to go about choosing a handgun but, for me, it’s the approach that works best.
I purchase a hangun on recommendation of forums, friends, periodicals and to some extent advertising. I bring the gun home and put multiple rounds through it during multiple shooting sessions and try and gauge my comfort with the way the pistol shoots, my accuracy and the guns reliability. If the firearms suits me, I’m reasonably accurate and it functions correctly I consider it something to move forward with. If these criteria aren’t met I trade or sell the gun back to the gun store. It’s expensive and I usually take a hit on whatever I purchase but I feel like i’m in a better place to make a decision.
I can’t hold a gun in a gunstore and know if it’s going to be a great pistol. I can’t even spend a few hundred rounds in an indoor range at the gunstore and feel confident. I need to put a pistol through paces over a period of time to understand how I will shoot with it and how the gun will perform.
To me, and it’s just me, the 100 dollars or so hit I take on a handgun that isn’t reliable, or that I don’t shoot very well is money WELL spent. For example, i purchased a G17 mostly on what I’ve read on this forum. I held the gun at the store and thought about how different it felt in my hand and how it didn’t seem like a “naturl pointer.” After about 7 or 8 hundred rounds I found myself going back to it over and over. I’ve become accurate with the pistol, it never has an reliability issue and I’ve become accustomed to any “ergonomic deficiency” it may or may not have. It points just as naturally as my M&P9 or HK45. This is a pistol I never would have purchased by feel and didn’t feel comfortable with for the first 2 or 3 hundred rounds.
In answer to the OP here I can recommend the G17 (round count around 1500 now.) I can’t offer any opinion on the other 2 candidates here because I’ve never owned them. The G17 that I own is reliable, accurate and easy to maintain. I’d also suggest the M&P9 into your shopping list. Of the 9’s I’ve had the glock and the m&p have been my favorites. I won’t be taking a hit on either of those.
rat – I think we’re discussing minutiae at this point so I hope you’ll indulge my counter-point, even though odds are neither of us thinks it’s worth arguing about. We seem to agree that the best way to assess a gun is to shoot it, after all. So this is really just an intellectual exploration …
As for the natural point, my comment about it being unimportant for newb/unskilled shooters is that [i]regardless of whether it’s pointing right on target or a few inches high, lack of situational awareness, a warrior mindset, and even proper trigger control make those few inches essentially unimportant. So for the unskilled shooter, pointability still rates low on my personal scale. A gun that is reliable, safe, ease to load and unload, easy to conceal, etc. are far more important.
Todd,
Naw…I dont see this as an arguement at all. If it really came down to it I would have to defer to your advice and experience as it far exceeds my own. I prefer to think of it as a debate if you will?
I like to believe that I know enough to know when to just shut my mouth and learn from those in the know.
I actually appreciate the advice/debate/corrections from those more knowledgable in the craft of armed combat than am I anytime I can get it. I look forward to chatting more in the future.
If you like the feel of the Glock in your hands, have fired it, and already know that you can use it… then it is very hard to come up with a reason to choose the FN or XD over the Glock.
Spare parts for the Glock are extremely cheap and extremely plentiful, and replacing them is a breeze. It is easy to find mags, accessories, etc.