First post, expect the worst:-)

AR/M4 Custom Build Forum
1

Thank you for this forum - I have been reading a lot. I would hope that I’m learning, but that is for the teacher(s) to say, I think…

Here is my lengthy question:

I want to build a new AR. I am familiar with the platform, but certainly not a gunsmith, so I’m looking at assembly of parts, rather than anything truly custom. I have a franken gun that I put together from a pile of misc parts, used and new, mostly unmarked, and find that regardless of the shooter, it seems to be about as accurate as a smoothebore musket. 2.5" at 40 yards is typical:-) So I’m going to fix that after building a mission-specific rifle.

The mission of the rifle is 3fold: a) SHTF b)Varmints c) Self Defense.

Regarding SHTF, I live in a rural area, about 100 miles from a major population center. If something bad happens and the food supply/power/whatever goes bad there, a major conduit for those people will be the interstate that runs from them and passes by me. My farm is about 4 miles (as the crow flies) from the interstate. Far enough to be remote, close enough to be found:-)

The country is rolling, wooded with open pastures. Realistic maximum practical distances for shooting of anything range from about 50 yards to 400 yards.

Regarding Varmints, we have livestock, coyotes, and the occasional mountain lion. Yes, we have lost livestock to at least one lion. I’m far less concerned about that than about me being easier to catch than a calf, though, from a large predator’s viewpoint:-).

Self Defense - well, this is really related to points a) and b), because I typically have a handgun nearby for the remote possibility of an intruder.

The plan:
Centurion HF lightweight barrel
Mur Upper w/ fixed optic (looking like it’s going to be an ACOG)
carbine type stock, brand not selected.
JP stripped lower (I can’t find any real data on this part, but it is available to be through a local source. I would like your thoughts).
Colt lower bits and twiddles except the fire control group.
I have a Jard trigger that I like, but I hear good things about some others…
The rest of the parts are up in the air.

Regardless of parts or configuration, the two number one things about this rifle are that it must be reliable, and it must be one that I will carry, so that I will have it if I need it, which means light, convenient, and does not get in the way of doing my work.

Thank you all for your opinions, whatever they may be.

2

Your best defense against roaming bad boys is a really good hedge, imo. Plant one now, and have a way to block/camoflage the openings. Hedges are used in South Africa to keep bad folks from discovering good folks’ homesteads, btw.

Nothing wrong with your initial list of parts, though you’d pry just be better off getting a BCM/Colt/DD/Noveske.

I’d think twice about installing any kind of fancy, non milspec trigger on a SHTF gun. Aftermarket triggers are a common failure point on ARs.

3

[/i]

Very good advice.

4

Think twice, but don’t discount it totally. There are combat capable triggers out there that are better than GI. (ie G-SSA)

5

It sounds like you’ve done the hard part–which is laying out the purpose of your build. And, like most things, everyones opinions will vary on the specifics of the build. So if I cold throw in my 2-cents into the mix this is what I would choose and I’ll give you a quick summary of why. So for my build of a true SHTF AR here it goes:

– A Hammer forged barrel is a must and if you want to shoot varmints too then I would probable settle on a 16-inch for the best of both worlds. Not to long not to short. I think your choice for Centurion Arms is spot on, maybe a DD or BCM as an alternative choice. If possible I’d get a matching BCG (Auto/Chrome-lined) from the same barrel manufacture that is properly staked/tested/inspected.

– For your lower/upper receiver I’m of the opinion any forged mil-spec unit will serve you well. You’re really paying for a logo/name. I’ve found Aero Precision to be the least costly and fit/finish/function are outstanding. Besides, they make the receivers for the big names anyways. They can be had for around $99 for the lower and $59 for the upper

– To keep the barrel as accurate as possible, free-floating is a must. I’d pick DD, then Larue.

– Since you have some real estate to play with; BUIS with elevation would be nice. I’d go with KAC 200-600 micro front and rear.

– If you have budget, maybe an aim-point for CQB and then a mil-dot scope to reach out and touch someone. Put them on the Larue mounts and you’re golden.

– Lastly, the best (single Stage) LPK I’ve put together is from G&R Tactical, then maybe DD as my second choice.

Any if you really have $$$ to spend, I’d build two different uppers; one for the SHTF (16"Light Weight) and another for Varmints (18"-20" heavy barrel).

Anyways, have fun!

6

Centurion HF lightweight barrel
Mur Upper w/ fixed optic (looking like it’s going to be an ACOG)
carbine type stock, brand not selected.
JP stripped lower (I can’t find any real data on this part, but it is available to be through a local source. I would like your thoughts).
Colt lower bits and twiddles except the fire control group.
I have a Jard trigger that I like, but I hear good things about some others…
The rest of the parts are up in the air.

Centurion would be the way to go IMHO. A heavy duty barrel with a tapered bore for added accuracy, which, in your case, is highly beneficial.
A good BCG - BCM or DD. Not sure if you would want one but the Failzero bolt looks like something worth trying as well.
Why a MUR though? Nothing against them…Im just trying to understand your need for it.
ACOG is GTG for your needs.
JP Lower - Not familiar with it. As long as it’s up to spec and forged then you should be alright.
Carbine stock, I would go for the Vltor A5/Emod kit if you can get one or an RE-10 and the A5 buffer and spring kit.
FCG: Get a good GI trigger or the Geisselle SSA as suggested above.

I totally agree with the hedge. A simple yet effective solution.

7

Sorry, I was disconnected from the net (over the weekend). Thank you all for your responses. It’s reassuring to get counsel from folks who know what they are doing.

It sounds as though my insistence on colt parts may not need to be a mandate. As well, it sounds like there is consensus on the barrel choice. Some folks had questions so I compiled the answers & responses into this post below:

120mm: A hedge would be a effective solution, no argument there. However, I have to say it would restrict my view as well as the perps… One thing I did not mention is that a county road cuts through our property. So… altogether we are talking about a lot of hedge we would have to put in. This would not be my preferred solution.

I had looked at buying an upper, but I would prefer to build it myself. Call me crazy:laugh: this is a project that I would like to do myself. I build other devices for the same reason. The stuff I build isn’t always a higher quality unit though…

BlueOvalFan: I’m really looking at focusing on just one upper here. I don’t think I can swing two uppers.

Crocs: I picked the mur 1a because I like the look of it, and I have a belief (perhaps not data driven) that it would be more rigid. Of course, I’m open to other viewpoints.

Thanks everyone, again, for your thoughts and consideration.

8

I took this off the Vltor site:
The MUR was developed to give the customer a MilSpec correct upper receiver with a thicker wall, making the MUR upper receiver a stronger platform. This more rigid upper receiver will increase accuracy and reliability, while extending the life of the interfacing components, such as the bolt carrier group and barrel assembly.
Sounds like a good fit for your needs based on the info above. No personal experience with them though so I cannot credibly say more about them beyond what Ive read.
You could get the VIS upper to go with your Centurion barrel. Monty has the VIS-3 option on his site.
Have you decided on your other parts yet?

9

I’m liking the look of the magpul ACS stock on a mil-spec receiver extension tube, and I want to run a FA carrier. The failzero coating looks interesting, but I would like to hear from someone who has used it before spending the extra $.

Also, I am looking at the battle comp brake, but I’m not sure it’s worth the $ to me yet. I am interested in minimizing the flash signature over damping recoil.

Do you have a recommendation on a bolt? I’m not really understanding the benefits of one variation over another. Is there a “better” bolt than one from BCM? Aside from material and mfg considerations, is there a design modification that I should look for?

10

Dont get anything less than a milspec carbine RE. I’d recommend the Vltor A5 but it’s not available at the moment. The RE-10, however, with a rifle spring and an A5 buffer should work the same. It has the exact same interior and exterior dimensions except the position slots are laid out differently which prevent the Emod or ACS from collapsing completely. Depending how you like to run you stock, this may be a non-issue.
Battlecomp seems to be THE IT comp at the moment. I Dont have one but Ive been reading nothing but good things about it. Pricey as is at $150 but, if you compare it to the only other comp with the same benefits, it’s pretty cheap. :wink: You may want to do some research on the AAC blackout and see if it fits your needs.
As for your bolt, BCM and DD highly recommended. Both adhere to the TDP and are very reasonably priced.
No design modifications to look for, just make sure it’s made right, with the right steel, properly assembled and properly tested. The Failzero coating is a good innovation though. There are guys here on M4C running them. Here are a couple of threads for your reference.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35550
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33780

11

Thanks for the failzero threads. I had read one of them, but the other was news for me.

You mention an A5 buffer. I was thinking of either an H or an H2. Are these similar?

Regarding the RE, I would like the stock to compress completely up to the receiver because one of my concerns is ensuring the rifle minimizes getting in the way of may work tasks. Getting shorter would probably help with this issue.

I like the failzero coating idea. Given that they can coat “my” stuff, I may end up with a BCM or Colt BCG for now and send it in for coating after I have settled on a HTS setup.

I looked at the Vltor VIS receiver you mentioned. I prefer the MUR because of the hand guard options I have with a traditional receiver. I’m back and forth about free floating because I don’t want rails all over the place. From the look of the rails, I suspect they would tangle up in vegetation pretty easily. I have no experience with them though.

12

For you bcg you cant go wrong with bcm, DD, Lmt and so on. Failzero is a cool one too.

I kind of went a different route for my rifle designed more or less for shtf. I went with the YM NM. There are decent amount of people who run them on here but stay pretty quiet about it. Mostly because of their weirdness on not staking the keys. It creates alot of hate toward YM (jesus ym just stake them already not hard to do!)That said most online retailers that sell them stake them as well. I have run over 700 rnds through mine w/o a problem. Easy as hell to clean. I did however replace the bolt. Not because there was anything wrong with the YM but wanted to give the dennys ionbond one a shot. It seems to cake up less on the bolt head, which is nice. Overall i m very impressed with this carrier or bcg as a whole. Looks good and performs good as well.

13

http://www.vikingtactics.com/handguard.html#JPHG4M

Check this out as a possible option for a free float tube.

I have this on one of my 16inch uppers with the extension. It encapsulates my FSB nicely and I’ve only added two rail sections. Full length top rail and a four inch at 6 o’clock.

Very handy in the brush and in enclosed spaces. (Think horse stalls and pick up trucks.)

I like especially because I’m not a big fan of full length rails. Definitely prefer partial side and bottom rails.

14

The A5 is heavier and only works in an A5 or RE-10 RE. Should you go with a standard tube, go H or H2.
If you want the stock to compress completely, you’ll have to wait for the A5 or just get the standard milspec tube. The CTR on an RE-10 may sit just as far back as a fully collapsed ACS though if your open to that stock type.
As for FZ’s coating services, I read somewhere that theyve stopped doing that due to current workload but you may want to check with them to see if theyre taking coating services again.
Lastly, the Troy TRX-Extreme and VTAC Extreme are good no snag options. The RIS II would be my top choice on a SHTF gun though. You want to look check it out.
I should say, Ive gone hunting with my DD Omega and not once did it snag on anything. Actually, in my case, my FSB and lighht were the real “snaggers” more than anything else. Rail panels are an added insurance against snagging as well.

15

Well, after a great deal of thought, here are some more parts decisions.

BCG - BCM. Decided to give the failzero products a miss due to the extra cost and as-yet unproven value.

Stock, RE, Buffer, etc - VLTOR Emod kit

LPK - G&R w/o options

Gas Block - VLTOR low profile. Still debating this one a bit because of the front sling mount problem (that is, where to mount it w/o the FF railed HG:-)

Charging handle - Gunfighter type 4. I’m assuming this is a good fit for use with an ACOG equipped carbine. Thoughts?

Hand guards - Magpul MOE midlength. I’ve decided not to FF the barrel at this time.

Jury is still out on the flash suppressor and trigger.

I mentioned in another thread that the parts are starting to arrive, including a couple of 20 round magpul mags. Very different from what I’m used to (USGI aluminum). Seems as though the 20 rounders can’t store the top clip on the bottom of the mag like the 30 rounders do.

I would really like to get into a class this spring that covers carbine use in my type of area (non-urban).