This is going to be my first and only AR. I want something that is going to be accurate, can handle some abuse, and isn’t too heavy. I’m willing to pay a little more for good components. I was originally thinking about the SR-15, but I’m a little uncomfortable with all of the proprietary parts. This is the list so far, please comment:
Lower Receiver - Noveske N4 Gen 2
Upper Receiver - Vltor MUR-1A
Rail - DD Light Rail 12.0
Barrel - DD 16" Mid-Length CHF w/ lo-pro gas block
Bolt Carrier Group - BCM
Stock - Vltor Imod
Lower Parts Kit - G&R
Charging Handle - BCM Gunfighter Mod 4
Trigger - Geissele SSA
Flash Suppressor - AAC Blackout
Front Sight - Troy folding (micro or standard?)
Rear Sight - Troy folding (micro or standard?)
Sounds like a good solid build for sure. Although I think I can speak for most of the people on here…once you get one, you’ll end up with another. I said the same thing about my first one and have 3 now…hahaha!!! What is your ultimate goal for the gun…plinker, competition, hunting…all of the above?
A few thoughts:
Lower - why the Noveske Gen 2? For the price of one of these, you can two or three standard lowers.
Upper - the MUR will be of marginal value if you’re not building a precision rig with an SS barrel. I don’t really see the point of using one with a CMV barrel - seems like a waste of $230 to me.
Rail - that’s another $305. Don’t forget you’ll need to buy the tool to install the barrel nut on this rail, as well.
Barrel - with a low profile gas block already pinned to it from DD, this will set you back $330. So, between the rail, barrel, gas block, gas tube, upper, and tools, if you build it on your own, you’re already spending in excess of $950.
I would simply buy a custom DD upper receiver group from Smartgunner for $655 and call it good.
Trigger - do you have any experience with a standard AR trigger at all? I suggest waiting until later on this one.
Sights - go with standard folding sights. The Micro version are for rifles like the 416, SCAR, POF, and ACR that have much higher rail systems. I assume you’re planning on running a variable power optic on it? If simply using an Aimpoint or EOTech, I’d stick with fixed sights.
Also, are you going to build this yourself? You’re going to need tools.
Totaling all of this up, you’ll have spent $2000 on this rifle and won’t even have an optic, yet.
What’s wrong with a Colt 6920, BCM M4 or MID16, DD XV or XVM, or Spike’s M4LE or Midlength LE? You could buy two of any of these rifles for the cost of your one. Or you could buy one with a $400 Aimpoint PRO, and still have $600-$700 to spend on a sling, light, and ammo.
thanks for the comments. the main purposes for the rifle will be carbine classes and target shooting. i’ve already got a pistol that i take to the range a lot, and i have the eventual goal of doing 3-gun competitions (after enough training, practice, and a shotgun). my main criteria are: strong build with reliable components, light (for carbine classes), reasonably accurate (not getting a noveske upper or a stainless barrel).
lower - just because i like noveske roll marks and im sure it will mate very well with the mur
upper - recommendations from friends; its 190, not 230
rail - lightest rail from a good name that people actually seem to like. not really interested in the magpul handguards; id like to stay with a long rail for a longer sight radius, but this could be a trade-off for more weight savings
barrel - this was a toss up between bcm and dd. it was easier to find a chf chrome-line dd online; definitely want the mid-length gas system; i could be sold on LW vs. gov’t
bcg - no one should be debating this
stock - this was a toss-up between magpul acs and vltor. the costs are comparable, but im not sold on either. i like the ctr, but i wasn’t sure about the cheekweld or if it was too light and i would end up with a poorly balanced rifle (muzzle heavy)
charging handle - again, no one should be debating this
trigger - im probably better off with the GI for now; how is the trigger in the g&r lpk?
flash suppressor - i shoot indoors a lot and don’t want to piss off the people in the lane next to me with a brake. i could always get one later since this is a 16" barrel
buis - i want metal sights, not a fan of polymer; everyone says troy are the best
Alright… you can get a DD M4V5 for about $1300. Add a variable power scope and you’re set. It will do all of the above and then some. I would also recommend the DD M4V7, which has a 12" tube which may be more appropriate for 3-gunning than a rail system.
Of course, you can still build an entire upper receiver with DD Lite rail and DD mid-length CHF barrel for $655 from Smartgunner. Add your BCM BCG for $140, Gunfighter charging handle for $45, and your choice of lower receiver group for <$350, and you’re at $1200 for an excellent rifle that will meet all of those needs.
i wasn’t aware of the custom upper from DD. my rail and barrel are coming to 667, so its basically like getting a free upper. what kind of receiver does it come with? looks pretty generic from the description
thats a good idea, then i add in a magpul trigger guard and still save $150. am i gonna lose much going from a mur to a noveske upper? i dont think the difference between a gen 1 and gen 2 lower is much more than the magwell and the trigger guard, is there? its out of stock now, i wonder if they will get more in or if thats the end of the line.
My personal opinion is that the Noveske will be just as good as the Vltor. The Vltor shines with the mono though. I prefer the N4 lower over G2 for two reasons (1) trigger guard and (2) priced as a billet. I could get over point 2 if they had a better point 1 on them. I’d assume go with a LaRue billet lower at that price. I can vouch for all of the above as I have bought 2 N4 lowers and a LaRue lower over the G2. Again, this is just my preferences, and I have put my money where my mouth is on this one. Cheers
I don’t see a lot to be gained with either the MUR or the VIS, although I imagine they may offer something to the benchrest or precision crowd. From the Vltor site re: the MUR-
This more rigid upper receiver will increase accuracy and reliability, while extending the life of the interfacing components, such as the bolt carrier group and barrel assembly.
re: the VIS
The VIS is a polylithic upper receiver assembly that ties the normally individual receiver and handguard into an aggregate single part. This combination overcomes many problems that are associated with the traditional “two piece” design, most notably being greatly improved structural strength and repeatable accuracy
especially interesting to note the use of the term “polylithic” as so many call it “monolithic”.
I would like to hear more about this.
Barring that, I don’t see the benefit to using them for a basic, first, carbine.
You definitely seem to have done your internet reading. Other than money potentially wasted I don’t see anything inherently wrong with your list of parts, even if I’m not convinced you really know why you want them (which is generally a hard thing to admit and something you won’t realize until you’re several thousand rounds in). I also hope we don’t see you back in 4 months with another thread titled “I finally got my first AR assembled and now it won’t run!” as happens from time to time. There’s a of money there on some pretty specific parts that I wouldn’t opt for on a first gun. Most people will surprise themselves what they can do with a stock gun, a little instruction, and a little practice.
I believe the VIS is polylithic as it is comprised of three primary pieces: upper receiver, upper HG, and lower HG. The upper is welded to the (upper) HG during assembly. The end result is dilithic, I guess
From VLTOR:
"The manufacturing process of the VIS is unique…starting with what is essentially a traditional separate upper receiver and handguard, these parts are partially machined then permanently joined using an exclusive welding process - this composite unit is then stress relieved, final machined and heat treated. "
Of course this differs from many monolithic uppers that are typically milled from a single piece of Al billet and usually require funky extended barrel wrenches for intallation. The advantage of the VIS is that the entire upper is forged.
Two things I don’t like about the VIS are
Weight - 29 oz for rifle length which is 5 oz more than, say a a MUR + DD lite 12.0.
Width of the HG. The HG measures 2.2" which doesn’t seem to be that significant. After handling one of these, however, I found it cumbersome and I have pretty large hands. The width seemed to be more of a detriment than the weight. Note the width in this pic from MM:
I wouldn’t buy brand new. Always look for used. There’s plenty of people that buy new and change their mind and trust me you will be one of them. Only thing that I would buy new is the lower. If it is a slow build keep checking the forums for new items that people didn’t want… If your in a hurry and have money coming out of your rear buffer, then buying new will not be an issue.
thanks for the comments, everyone. at this point i don’t really want to go used because i want to get it assembled in the next few weeks. the lower will come down to what can i get cheap with a roll stamp that i like. if i can get an upper/lower matched set from mega or noveske, i may go that route. i am back and forth on the ctr vs. imod stock, but with a thick buttpad the ctr is just as heavy. then it comes down to friction lock vs. checkweld. overall if i go with a LW barrel i should be comfortably under 7lbs with an empty mag.
i dropped the geissele because people seem to like the g&r lpk trigger. once i get enough time on the rifle i can decide if i want to upgrade. i also dropped the aac flash suppressor. once again, if i want something more exotic later i can always do that, and a standard a2 is only 8 bucks so its not a big waste.
A CMV barrel is not less accurate than a stainless steel barrel.
Yanks1927, don’t spend a large amount of money on a lower. You can get an Aero Precision, LRB or PSA lower for well under $100. Billet receivers are heavier, more expensive and sometimes made of 6061 alloy instead of 7075. Most billets are not worth the extra cost.
I have a VLTOR MUR upper on my precision AR and I like it very much. However, I’m not sure it offers much of an advantage over a standard forged upper to justify the added cost for a carbine.
You could also save a few bucks by getting a standard barrel instead of a CHF. Nothing wrong with either choice, but is the added stiffness of MUR and the extra life of a CHF worth the extra cost? Just something to think about
