First build; Am I headed in the right direction?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

Hi all, new to AR’s and have always wanted to build one and finally took the plunge last week and decided to do it. I’ve been lurking here and 2 other boards just reading trying to see what people suggest and to get a good idea of things to go for as far as parts. From what I’ve read (mostly here, but some from AR15.com forums) I’ve come up with a preliminary list of parts and wanted some suggestions as to whether or not it seems like a good direction to head for my first AR. The purpose of the gun will be solely range shooting, between 100-300yds.

So far I’ve got a lower I’m waiting on at the local gun store, but that’s about it.

The rest of the parts I’m leaning towards will be slowly accumulated during the next 2-3 months, but this is what I was thinking so far:

Ranier Arms Match .223 Wylde Barrel 18"
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2902

Noveske Upper

BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle

Daniel Defense Low Profile Gas Block (and gas tube)

ACT Trigger from ALG Defense

Anything I should know about the preceding parts? Anything better for around the same price? Reliability issues with any of those? etc

Also, gonna need a free float rail, but would anything be incompatible with that setup so I know not to look at it when the time comes?

Still iffy on stocks but leaning towards either Magpul ACS or one of those ACE Skeleton stocks…need to find someone locally to see if I can hold em (mounted) and see how they feel first.

Suggestions/input?

2

If your goals are just shooting between 100-300m, then you’ll find that a standard chrome lined 16’’ barrel will serve you fine, and be suitable for HD/SD work as well.

Actually even 10.3-11.5’’ guns can do out to 500m.

Unless you’re intentionally building an SPR rig, then I’d shitcan the 18’’ SS barrel, and run a Colt (Specialized Armament), BCM, DD, or Noveske barrel.

I don’t know what’s significant about a Noveske M4 upper. I’d go VLTOR MUR (preferred, as you can get them without the bolt assist, which I like), or Colt/BCM/DD M4. However, Noveske would be fine as well.

Most FF rails should be compatable with most setups, unless you’re going to run something wonky on the gun. KAC, Troy, and DD is all I can recommend you with as they’re what I have more experience with. Especially KAC.

Everything else looks good. However, I have no experience with that trigger, I’d roll with Colt USGI, LMT 2-stage, or KAC match.

Maybe somebody else can give you more information on it, or maybe you know more about it than I do.

Stocks I’d recommend are Magpul CTR, Colt M4 GenII, Colt CAR, LMT SOPMOD, or VLTOR. I don’t care for others.

Make sure to get a good BCG.

I don’t know what you’re shooting experience is, so maybe a little bit of background could help us out?

Will this gun ever be an SBR, or suppressor host?

What kind of sighting system do you have in mind?

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So far, the parts that you have listed look like a solid build. BUT, as your first build, what is it that a complete rifle cannot give you that this build can? You said that you have a lower receiver waiting, you could easily snap an assembled upper to the lower you have waiting. From the looks of the barrel, it seems as if you are wanted a precision oriented rig. There are plenty of uppers from great companies like BCM, and Noveske that could give you exceptional accuracy. Get an assembled upper and get a quality BCG (BCM, DD, LMT). Before you purchase any part of the upper (if you are dead set on piecing it together) I can only tell you to read, read and READ some more. Learn as much as you can. As far as stocks and rails go, Magic Salad hit the nail on the head. I am partial to DD rails.

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I was thinking like a semi-SPR rig. I’d like to be able to grow into it and know that in the event I’d ever like to move out past 300yds that the barrel could accommodate it.

Forgot to mention the BCG, was leaning towards BCM for that.

Can’t have a suppressor or anything cool…live in Los Angeles :frowning:

Early reviews seem to be all positive about the trigger, and it seems everyone likes it a lot more than a stock trigger that comes with the avg lower parts kit…but it’s not ~$250+ like some of the others which I’m not 100% sure I need (which is why I was leaning towards it). Not sure if I should just get a standard trigger and see how that works for me and then upgrade if necessary…or if I just get that one now (is it really that much better for the money)?

Sights will be the last thing I procure…not sure what would be necessary for 300yds (max goal of 500 accurately) with a fair degree of accuracy. I LOVE iron sights…hate red-dots. Limited experience with scopes so I’m unfamiliar about what brands are good, what magnification is necessary for my goals, etc other than supposedly Leupold is good. I need to do more research on this for sure, but I figure I can run irons for a while after it’s built until I can be sure I’m educated enough on what to get and afford a quality optic. I’ve heard so far suggestions to get either a 4x ACOG (but isn’t the red dot going to cover a large amount of the target at distance?), Trijicon 1-4x accupoint, and a 3-9x Leupold Riflescope.

Background: I only own a Sig handgun, but when I go to the range with my friends they all own various AR’s that were complete when bought. I enjoy shooting them, and I’m fairly comfortable with them as well…I just don’t want to be “that guy” who always shows up and shoots someone elses gun so I figure it’s time to jump in and get my own.

Edit to answer: Rekkr870

I don’t like the idea of a complete rifle due to the lack of customization, ie. I’d hate to buy an assembled rifle and decide that I hate the grip, stock, and rail and have to essentially “buy it twice”. I considered the assembled upper route, but it seems assembled uppers that are all recommended are wayyyy more money than my proposed parts list. Plus I spent a couple years working towards an engineering degree so I tend to prefer to build things (I’m mechanically inclined so assembly isn’t a problem if I have all the right parts in front of me). Perhaps I’m not looking close enough though, would there be anything comprable to what I’ve listed in terms of quality/potential for accuracy for around the same price range? Minus the rail that I’m not sure about yet it is about $750 for everything listed so far. Really leaning towards the versatility of a 1:8 twist barrel, and would like 18" if possible. Haven’t had any luck finding both.

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Some general thoughts: I’d get an assembled upper with a chrome 16" barrel for a first AR. Good brands are BCM, DD, LMT, Noveske and for less cost but good quality Spikes and Palmetto.

If it is going to be used for home defense at all, I’d reconsider a red dot sight, they absolutely rule in close quarters, low light and improved qual scores in the Army at ranges from 50-300m over iron sights. If it is going to just be a range gun, a 1-4x scope or an ACOG would be very nice.

Those ALG Defense triggers really look good on paper, but they are new. I’d just rock the GI trigger that comes with the LPK for now, and add an ALG later after they have been tested more by others. Over the next few months the various forums will have high round count reports on those triggers so you don’t have to be an early tester…esp. on a first (and only) AR. All 3 of my personal GI triggers (one a RRA, 2 from Palmetto) are a lot better than they were on my issued M16A2s and M4 carbines.

6

I can’t deal with PSA…their customer service so far has been rather disappointing (can’t blame anyone other than myself as I decided to order some stuff from them even after reading too many mixed reviews) but I’ll start reading up on Spike’s uppers. Are they known for accuracy as well as reliability? I ask because I’ve seen them mentioned in a positive manner in regards to the numerous “who makes a good/reliable upper?” posts everywhere, but never seen them mentioned when people ask about accuracy. Never heard of LMT, but since I was intending on including some parts from BCM and Noveske I’ll look into their complete uppers too and see what I can find. Mostly concerned about the barrel…who generally uses the best barrels in their complete uppers? Match grade?

I forgot to take into account how new the ALG trigger was, and you’re probably right…I should wait a couple months to see what the consensus is after they’ve been tested a little longer. I think I’ll try the GI trigger first and assess whether it’s necessary to upgrade after I’ve had it for a while.

Won’t be using this for home defense, would trust my Sig Sauer over a bullet-buttoned and handicapped AR (did I mention how much I hate California’s gun laws yet?) so this is going to be strictly gun range. I was leaning towards a scope instead of ACOG but not sure about ideal magnification (all my friends have red-dots). I’ll address that later though.

7

If you like irons so much, why did you choose a barrel without a fixed sight?

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Don’t like the traditional style sights, actually prefer HK style front sight (a la HK91)…thinking of that or at least a good set of flip-down sights (Troy or MI?).

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Understood. You’ll find the Troy BUIS more recommended than the MI. I have had both and like the Troy more.

You might also want to check out KAC sights as they are more “precision” oriented BUIS.

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Cool, thanks for the suggestion. I’ll do some more research on the Troy’s vs. KAC’s. Do you have any experience with the KAC’s?

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that barrel is not in stock, if you want it now try to BCM 18" stainless, heard nothing but great accuracy reports on them. plus they are dimpled for a set screw gas block.

noveske upper is just like any forged upper, unless your talking about the vltor one

get KAC micro sights, they are so much better than anything else on the market.

i dont know what type of handguard you want, but the troy industries trx handguards ar nice, i never liked the attachment method ,but they fixed that with the ALPHA model, i would get that

or go all out and get a dd lite or kac urx3

and get a geissele trigger, and dont look back, they are 100% worth the entry price, you can get a SSA for like $170. buy iron sights later if you have to.

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Awwww weaksauce! It was in stock 2 days ago when I last browsed…shoulda got it then. Looks like BCM is sold out of everything too. I’ll probably just have to wait…

Is the VLTOR heads and tails better? I never saw anything on it before coming here. What benefits would it have over a Noveske or BCM?

Was actually leaning towards the Troy TRX handguards too, I’ll probably end up going that route once I settle on the barrel.

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Noveske and Centurion Arms make very accurate chrome-lined, CHF barrels. I would definitely recommend a 16" Noveske Recce N4 or Centurion C4 upper receiver assembly for a “semi-SPR”. They’re already built, so you won’t have to worry about assembly, and the Noveske already includes a BCG and BCM Gunfighter charging handle, so that’s even better.

If you insist on a stainless barrel, I highly recommend either a 16" middy from White Oak Armament or a 16" SS410 middy from BCM. You’re getting a lot for the money if you go that route.

Early reviews seem to be all positive about the trigger, and it seems everyone likes it a lot more than a stock trigger that comes with the avg lower parts kit…but it’s not ~$250+ like some of the others which I’m not 100% sure I need (which is why I was leaning towards it). Not sure if I should just get a standard trigger and see how that works for me and then upgrade if necessary…or if I just get that one now (is it really that much better for the money)?

Just get an LPK from G&R Tactical and select Option 3, as it includes a Geissele G2S trigger. Honestly, since it’s your first AR, I would stick with a standard fire control group and then work your way up to something better once you get that down.

Sights will be the last thing I procure…not sure what would be necessary for 300yds (max goal of 500 accurately) with a fair degree of accuracy. I LOVE iron sights…hate red-dots.

Your priorities are a bit backwards here - buy your sights BEFORE you buy a custom trigger.

Limited experience with scopes so I’m unfamiliar about what brands are good, what magnification is necessary for my goals, etc other than supposedly Leupold is good. I need to do more research on this for sure, but I figure I can run irons for a while after it’s built until I can be sure I’m educated enough on what to get and afford a quality optic. I’ve heard so far suggestions to get either a 4x ACOG (but isn’t the red dot going to cover a large amount of the target at distance?)

ACOGs are expensive, but awesome. And no about the reticle.

Trijicon 1-4x accupoint

Great optic for the price - I own one. Just be sure you try the different reticles first to make sure you get the one you want. Everybody has different preferences in this regard.

Background: I only own a Sig handgun, but when I go to the range with my friends they all own various AR’s that were complete when bought. I enjoy shooting them, and I’m fairly comfortable with them as well…I just don’t want to be “that guy” who always shows up and shoots someone elses gun so I figure it’s time to jump in and get my own.

I’m more than happy to let my friends shoot my guns, as long as they pay for the ammo and help me clean them later.

I don’t like the idea of a complete rifle due to the lack of customization, ie. I’d hate to buy an assembled rifle and decide that I hate the grip, stock, and rail and have to essentially “buy it twice”. I considered the assembled upper route, but it seems assembled uppers that are all recommended are wayyyy more money than my proposed parts list. Plus I spent a couple years working towards an engineering degree so I tend to prefer to build things (I’m mechanically inclined so assembly isn’t a problem if I have all the right parts in front of me). Perhaps I’m not looking close enough though, would there be anything comprable to what I’ve listed in terms of quality/potential for accuracy for around the same price range? Minus the rail that I’m not sure about yet it is about $750 for everything listed so far. Really leaning towards the versatility of a 1:8 twist barrel, and would like 18" if possible. Haven’t had any luck finding both.

BCM makes an 18" SS410 upper receiver assembly. That being said, read this board more - the 18" is not going to give you that much of an advantage over a 16", especially if you’re not very proficient with the platform.

14

I’ll add those to my list of things to compare and do more research on.

Yeah, seems like that’s gonna be the plan. See if I really don’t like the standard trigger and then figure out what exactly I don’t like about it so that I’m more likely to replace it with something that best suits my needs (assuming I don’t like it that is).

I was always planning on getting irons first, but whatever scope I decide to go with will be down the road. You guys have talked me out of the custom trigger for now, but if I were to go that route in say a couple months…would it be better to still wait until I decide to go with a scope/red-dot (assuming I will want to leave irons).

Yeah, that’s the problem with the reticles though…one friend has an Aimpoint with a red dot (that I’m not terribly fond of), and another has a Trijicon with the pyramid (triangle) that I’m iffy on. None of the local gun stores carry anything else either for me to see the differences…looks like I need to make more friends at the gun range with a variety of scopes lol.

They don’t mind, and I always hook em up with 9mm ammo (or I buy dinner) but you know…just don’t wanna always be “that guy”…and considering I like shooting the rifles (and have wanting to build one since my freshman year of school) I think it’s a time to finally do it.

I’m starting to think that I should just ditch the other boards…at the very least I’m getting lots of responses and useful info here. I was led to believe that the 18" would offer the benefits of a 20" in terms of bullet stabilization and muzzle velocity but without all the weight. You said that it’s not much of an advantage due to my being new to the platform, would it not be beneficial for the possibility of “growing into it”? Like, say in a year I’ve put thousands of rounds down range and I’m getting to be somewhat experienced…hypothetically speaking of course…wouldn’t it be better to have and not need to buy again (ie. outgrow another barrel) than to start with something else and upgrade eventually?

15

You seem to have a lot of preferences for someone new to ARs. I’m not sure how you arrived at these.

For your stated purpose I don’t see anything glaringly wrong with what you listed, although I’d avoid the Ace stock personally.

I think you’d be better off with a BCM 16" complete upper just because it’s easier to buy and the 2" less won’t hurt you at all for what you want.

I also don’t know why everyone is steering you towards a chrome-lined barrel. With some exceptions the most-accurate chrome-lined barrels are still not going to shoot as accurately as some of the worst stainless barrels and if you’re shooting at a range then shooting for groups is the only thing to do, and you’re going to want the most mechanical accuracy you can get.

I find chasing groups to be one of the most god-awful boring types of shooting but I’d imagine if you were doing it at 100-300 yards and achieving a consistent result moving out further would be the next step.

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WRT “ALG trigger”, Bill Geissele is behind ALG…'nuff said.

-Rainman

17

I recommended CL barrel in the 16’’ veriety in case he wanted to use it for HD/SD.

However, I think you’re right about the range thing.

OP: If you want a precision barrel…

Noveske stainless, BCM, DD, and Kreiger.

Thems are the shit.

18

lol, yeah I’m kinda stubborn…but I don’t want to come across as hard-headed or anything. I’m taking all the info in and considering everything that is mentioned.

The only preferences that I know for certain are my disdain for the Aimpoint sights and a preference for irons, but that’s from personal experience. Everything else is just what I’ve gathered from reading various forums and reviews, and I am starting to realize that that is one of the problems with the internet (there’s so much information out there and a lot is opinion so you’re bound to get conflicting reports) but I’m always considering the opinions of others with more experience :slight_smile:

I was under the impression that a steel barrel was better in terms of accuracy (although heavier, but I’m not going to be trekking further than the 50yds from my car to the bench at the range) so that’s the main reason I lean towards that direction. And the idea of building just seems too fun to pass up. Bought a project motorcycle with no previous experience other than about 2 weeks riding time years prior and read everything I could and all the service manuals and got her running (took 6 months to diagnose, procure parts, and assemble but she runs finally lol) and I feel I’ve learned more about it than I would have if I just bought one that ran.

Slapping on a pre-built upper to an already assembled lower would take away that fun sense of wonder and exploration (kinda like when you’re a kid and everything was new and you just wanted to take it apart to see how it works) and I think the idea of assembly is almost as important to me as the final project. Maybe I’m weird but I just like to work with my hands if I can. Although this might all be moot if all the barrels I’ve looked at as possibilities are still sold out in 2 weeks when I start purchasing (in which case I’ll be looking into the suggested uppers).

More back on topic; but is there any reason anyone can think of why last week a lot of manufacturers showed barrels in stock but suddenly most of them are sold out? Is there a sudden run for barrels by consumers that happens regularly?

19

Yeah, I was leaning towards that but it was suggested that I try the standard configuration until further testing is done on the ALG triggers (considering how new they are); this way I’ll have enough range time to know exactly what I do/don’t like about the trigger to know if and what I’d want a new trigger to do for me.

20

I mistakenly thought it was about the shooting. I forget sometimes that people have made “chop onions” an activity vs. “eating”. There is zero real-world benefit to assembling your own rifle. If you want a sense of pride in building something, REALLY building something, go build a table, or a shed, or a house. ARs are for shooting.

Carry on. This thread is turning out like every other proposed “build” thread where it has nothing to do with asking for opinions if those opinions do anything other than validate the foregone, ignorance-(or worse, internet-)based opinions.

Enjoy your new gun in 6 months, and whatever you do get out and shoot the hell out of it.