I wonder if used Crisco oil would make your AR smell like french fries when it gets hot?
In a world where most meats all taste like chicken…serious?
I know nothing about Fire Clean other than what I’ve heard word of mouth and on the forums. Everyone I know in the real world, who has tried it, swears by it. It may be vegetable based like Frog Lube (which btw is the only thing I’ll use on my Glocks) but it seems to work very well.
I just keep it simple and use regular CLP. Then I’m not so worried about whether vegetable oil is in my guns (never thought I’d say or type that).
Some suppressor users have found silicone oil also makes it easy to remove carbon from suppressor internals.
You got to love those lube threads… I am not big on trendy stuff and never went the FrogLube way.
Going from the Mobil 1 made for Harleys (forgot the weight) to Fireclean, I noticed the BCG was easier to clean after a few hundred rounds. Same goes for suppressed fire. The idea of breathing petrochemicals for extended periods of time did not thrill me either.
I do not care who promotes it or what it is, but it works for my needs.
Other lubes worth of consideration are greases containing nano ceramic beads made for the food industry.
Science for the win!
I use it.
I like it.
End of story.
As stated above, the OP has confused miscibility (whether one material is soluble into another) and density (specific gravity).
For instance, CLP is miscible with gasoline even though they have different specific gravities.
You don’t use spectral analysis, (aka ICP Inductively Coupled Plasma (ICP) or mass spectrometer) for the simple reason that the elemental constituents do not conclusively identify the molecules present (In plain English, both mineral oils and vegetable oils are hydrocarbons, so the test is inconclusive for determining base stock.
One of the most common tests to determine base oil is FTIR (Fourier Transform Infared Analysis). In this test a range of infrared light is passed through the sample and a plot is generated of IR absorption versus wavelength. This plot is compared to plots from known base stocks to determine the material. Since IR absorption is a function of molecular structure, the test is good at identifying a complex mix of hydrocarbons.
The other test to do this would be gas chromatography.
There is a lot of work being done with plant oil based lubricants. Understand this, a plant oil based lubricant is not the same thing as Crisco or corn oil. It has been modified. The plant oil is just the starting point, just as crude oil is a starting point for conventional lubes.
As noted above one key issue is stabilizing against oxidation (which creates odor in plant oils, and ultimately results in gumming or varnish). This is also an issue for petroleum based hydrocarbons, although usually only an issue at sustained elevated temperature.
Bottom line: lubricant demands in a firearm are almost laughably low. Lots of products will work. Ignorance of the science is what the marketers use to sell, by selectively dropping bits and pieces of science to the uninformed. One of their favorite techniques is to quote a test as gospel proof that the product is better. People don’t know how the test works, it’s limitations, if it’s even relevant to the matter under discussion, or how to interpret the results. They don’t even know if it’s the right test in the first place.
In my experience working with lubes, it takes a range of tests to figure out what you have going on. It’s kind of like your doctor. He runs a full battery of tests, then interprets individual results in context of all of the other results. Isolated bits of info are almost useless.
Great post, very informative.
Very interesting. However, the purpose of this experiment was to prove whether or not they were identical chemicals (Fireclean/Crisco Vegetable Oil). Seems they aren’t.
This has me thinking about some Rand CLP I was given in Vtac classes in 2014. This year I was using it again in those classes and noticed it was very tacky. I felt as though it was originally more slippery.
I didn’t notice a smell but I’ll check it out at home.
Typically I use the single serving plastic pouches of lube, this was a bottl opened in 2014 and used again in 2015. It has seen some heat being put in ammo cans in the sun.
The problem with the experimental design was that the test would yield a false positive if veg oil and fire clean happened to be miscible. Referring to my gasoline and CLP example, had they mixed the conclusion would be that they were the same?
Reading the first post, we find that I stated:
No offense to you, but over on TOS, we have a nuclear scientist (his words, although he said "I’m no chemist, Nuke though) who literally understood my first post (same as here) to indicate that they DID mix. I now understand why more and more manufacturers have said “**** the internet forums”.
You win [emoji23]
I can only go by my experience with different lubes. FireClean seems to leave less carbon buildup. And it makes cleaning easier. I don’t have to scrape much to remove carbon and it seems to wipe off more easily than anything else I’ve used. Rifle action also seems to stay smoother longer. I do not think this is my imagination and I’m not easily convinced by sales people or adds.
So I keep using Fireclean on ARs where carbon buildup is more of a problem. And other lubes on piston rifles.
Sorry, brain fade on my part wrt conclusions if they do mix in your OP.
Do they have a MDSS/TDS on-line?
I’m curious to see the flash point, Gravity, etc…
Not sure about fireclean but someone has done a virgin oil analysis of Weaponshield and posted it on an oil forum. The thing of it is, at this point, I am more concerned about the fumes we breathe in that these lubes put out when they burn or go into the air. Fireclean does a good job overall but it doesn’t do a better job than weapon shield or Slip 2k EWL when it comes to burn off in my experience.
This where I’m at too. I’ve never had a lube not work good enough to keep an AR, Glock, or 1911 running as intended, and I’ve used some BS to include Rem-Oil and WD-40.
I use Slip 2000 because it doesn’t smell, doesn’t gel, is non-toxic, keeps anything from sticking to the gun, and doesn’t stain clothes.
I tried synthetic motor oil and it turns into a sticky mess after a few months (I very rarely clean a gun past a shop towel wipe-out and re-lube).