Firearms Blog: Navy to buy more SCARs

[train_of_abuses]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/12/15/navy-to-buy-additional-fn-scar-mk-13-mk-16-mk-17-and-mk-20/

I apologize if this has already been posted somewhere, but I didn’t see it listed anywhere.

[CageFighter]

great…that means LESS mags for civilians!

[QuietShootr]

But, but, M14, but, LMT, but but but FAL, but…KAC!

[Reagans_Rascals]

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[train_of_abuses]

Is that what you have heard about the SCAR H?

[Reagans_Rascals]

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[train_of_abuses]

Yeah, I was meaning if you had heard that about the 308, too. Just curious, but thanks for the info. I admit to being a bit surprised to see the Navy buying the SCARs in 556 because I have read it stated quite a bit how much people like the H version, while the L doesn’t really offer enough advantages over the M4 to justify the cost.

[Reagans_Rascals]

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[K_Town]

@Reagans_Rascals

a barrel made from either a super alloy or perhaps a carbon-fiber wrapped ceramic, and a new case and powder design enabling the performance of a .338 from the case of a 9mm

I’ve always felt that the next major step forward in projectile weapons is the ammunition since we have been using the same basic launchers since 1944 (STG44).

@Reagans_Rascals

Or maybe even a rail-gun type of system

For artillery and tank guns I can easily see this as the next step forward.

Thread derail aside…

@Reagans_Rascals

More than a few times I’ve heard complaints of the weapon essentially being “shoved down their throats” for lack of a better descriptor… At least from those on the East Coast…

I wonder why the Navy wants the Mk16 to succeed so badly.

[Jaws]

@K_Town

I wonder why the Navy wants the Mk16 to succeed so badly.

I read in a few places that HK416 starts to show some reliability issues and that’s what many units wanted or used.
A lot of resistence to SCAR in SOCOM came from many people wanting the 416. Now, that 416 may not look such a great investment in the long run, maybe people have a better look at SCAR.

This is just a wild guess. Of course, I could be very wrong.:fie:

[Tuukka]

@Jaws

I read in a few places that HK416 starts to show some reliability issues and that’s what many units wanted or used.
A lot of resistence to SCAR in SOCOM came from many people wanting the 416. Now, that 416 may not look such a great investment in the long run, maybe people have a better look at SCAR.

This is just a wild guess. Of course, I could be very wrong.:fie:

Couple of points:

• What are the sources for negative info on the HK416s?
• If a weapon is run hard / long enough, even with proper maintenance and parts replacement cycle, is there a replacement that could do better?

[Eurodriver]

@Reagans_Rascals

from the sentiment I’ve gathered from socnet on the SCAR-L… it seems to be somewhat lackluster… and not really wanted by those on the ground in NSW… regardless of what those on the hill would like

More than a few times I’ve heard complaints of the weapon essentially being “shoved down their throats” for lack of a better descriptor… At least from those on the East Coast…

Just full stock rooms being pushed onto them, with no real want on the part of the users. I think they like what they have been using for 40 years, and if are forced to change the 416 is in the lead, at least that what my source at team 4 says

My brother in law is best friends with the commander of SEAL team 8, I don’t want to post his name on here but he’s a great guy. Its really interesting because all of his guys don’t really like the SCAR (both versions) however I have talked to a bunch of seals while I was overseas that were stationed on the west coast and they seemed to love the SCAR H.

Its not the first time different teams have had different likes and dislikes.

[train_of_abuses]

Tuukka, I believe there was some thread on the AR ground about the HK416 a week or two ago. I was pretty surprised to read the posts about it since I had always thought it was extremely reliable, too.

[TiroFijo]

@Eurodriver

Its not the first time different teams have had different likes and dislikes.

A couple months ago I asked a few typical firearms questions to an exSEAL, working in the armament industry and well connected, and his reply was something like. “many times you ask six very experienced operators and you get six differente answers…”

[Reagans_Rascals]

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[montrala]

@Tuukka

Couple of points:

• What are the sources for negative info on the HK416s?
• If a weapon is run hard / long enough, even with proper maintenance and parts replacement cycle, is there a replacement that could do better?

For first question: nobody uses M4 constantly to deliver sustained suppressive fire. It just will not work, will start cook-off or melt after few mags. But HK416 can deliver it and is used to do this. But it is not MG, so this king of use (especially when suppressed) put on bolt and upper amount of stress that assault carbine is not designed for. So things start to break. HK416 can be driven harder, but has it’s limits. Lot of people tough that it is some unbreakable, indestructible miracle. When they found out it is not, they switch from love to hate relationship. I know of SOF unit (you know this unit, you deliver or try to deliver for them) that consider changing HK416 to Bushmaster ACR or POF USA. No comment on that.

For second one: here we say “it is always better in other place”. There is no replacement that will do (significantly) better than HK416, but people always think that something that we do not have will be better.

[BigJoe]

the scar is back on the chopping block and being evaluated by SOCOM, they are buying more because there has been something like 70 changes to the weapon in the last 2 years.

no longer using AAC cans and now using FN cans

[Eurodriver]

@BigJoe

the scar is back on the chopping block and being evaluated by SOCOM, they are buying more because there has been something like 70 changes to the weapon in the last 2 years.

no longer using AAC cans and now using FN cans

Is this both versions?

I never felt like the SCAR 16 was a big enough improvement over the M4 to justify a change (and it appeared I was right for a while) but I still think the SCAR 17 is the best .308 battle rifle out there right now.

[RyanB]

@montrala

For first question: nobody uses M4 constantly to deliver sustained suppressive fire. It just will not work, will start cook-off or melt after few mags. But HK416 can deliver it and is used to do this. But it is not MG, so this king of use (especially when suppressed) put on bolt and upper amount of stress that assault carbine is not designed for. So things start to break. HK416 can be driven harder, but has it’s limits. Lot of people tough that it is some unbreakable, indestructible miracle. When they found out it is not, they switch from love to hate relationship. I know of SOF unit (you know this unit, you deliver or try to deliver for them) that consider changing HK416 to Bushmaster ACR or POF USA. No comment on that.

For second one: here we say “it is always better in other place”. There is no replacement that will do (significantly) better than HK416, but people always think that something that we do not have will be better.

If you put that heavy a barrel on an M4 you could use it as an automatic rifle as well but that isn’t what it is meant to do.

[ForTehNguyen]

@montrala

For first question: nobody uses M4 constantly to deliver sustained suppressive fire. It just will not work, will start cook-off or melt after few mags.

This is more than a few mags

Colt M4/AR-15 Fired Full Auto untill it catches on fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzfm4pYhIyY