I have heard/ read many times not to use a match type trigger in a “fighting rifle”. Besides an actual mechanical malfunction/failure what are some other reasons? Or is it mainly reliability concerns?
The only info I’ve found so far is mechanical probs but not much else. Any input would be much appreciated!!
I don’t have a lot of experience with match 2 stage triggers but most of my research here and other forums leads me to believe it is all due to reliability.
With a game gun, if it breaks in a match, you don’t take home a trophy. With a truly defensive/offensive gun, you don’t go home.
Not worth the chance of my children growing up without me!
reliability and safety- you don’t want a fragile and light trigger on a combat weapon. malfunction risk goes up, negligient-discharge risk goes up, and weapon-stoppage risk goes up, and they all go up independently of each other.
fightin guns should have stock service triggers between 6-8lbs, in my opinion, and closer to 8 than 6.
A well-tuned M16A1 single-stage trigger is a joy to shoot accurately and quickly.
The standard 3-round burst trigger sucks ass due to the separate disconnectors and cams.
The Geissele Super Select Fire and Super Semi-Automatic triggers enhance a good shooter’s combat hit potential.
You won’t be able to tell much difference in the performance of a soldier trained en masse using the Army’s standard shake-and-bake Program of Instruction (designed for those off the street who have never handled a firearm).
A trained rifleman/marksman will be able to make that weapon dance.
It ain’t the weapon – it’s the talent of the marksman pointing it. A good trigger, good sights (or optic), and good ammo will make a huge difference to a trained rifleman.
For those who run a Colt, the low mass hammer and blue hammer spring sold at S.A.W are a great factory option that I have found to be very reliable. I have many thousand rounds through mine with no issues. Perfect trigger pull IMHO.
I wouldn’t want to run one due to the chance of a ND, those triggers are light, and very sensitive. First time I picked up a NM M16A2 I blasted a round into freaking space, big time embarrasing, but happens on a range. Do that in a combat/life or death and the consequences become much worse.
And genrally speaking, they’re designed for NM courses of fire, not high round counts and combat style shooting. A talented gunsmith can make a standard trigger into a beautiful thing without making it unreliable/unsafe
Looking back on it now, my Armalite came with one of those two stage triggers, perhaps that’s why I disliked it. And it failed to feed,extract, reliably within the first 300-400rds. I sold it to a friend. I guess being ex-Army, I’m partial to the feel of a fighting rifles trigger.
The standard GI trigger.
S.A.W.?
Specialized Armament Warehouse, they carry a lot of Colt parts.
Jay
I have no reason to fool with a 2 stage trigger…
I had a very light trigger on my tikka t3 .300 win mag and it was great for accurate supported shooting but not for a stressfull combative situation. Far too many chances to phuck up as stated above…
On my AR I run a standard trigger with a wold heavy hammer spring and a reduced power trigger and disconnect spring… its crisp and clean and serves me well… I did think about using the low mass hammer but it was not in stock at the time I built my lower…
This is a training issue. If your finger is not on the trigger the weapon will not go bang regardless of rather its a 2.5 pound trigger or a 10 pound one. I use Geisseles on my game guns and on my patrol rifle. They are tough enough.
Pat
Agreed. If you don’t violate the “four rules”, your weapon won’t go bang until you are ready to make it go bang. An over whelming cause of NDs are fingers on the damn trigger when it should have been straight and outside the trigger well.
A National Match trigger MUST pick up 4.5 pounds.
M1s have two-stage triggers. M14s have two-stage triggers.
AKs have 2-stage triggers.
How heavy does a trigger have to be?
A CMP-legal two stage trigger is anything but light. Its total pull weight has to be at least 4.5 lbs and most out of the box two stage triggers run at least a pound more.
Everyone seems to have no trouble fighting with a 5 lb trigger on a Glock, but a 5 lb two stage trigger on a rifle is hell waiting to happen. :rolleyes: GMAFB
I’m using a two-stage RRA in my carbine. I took it off my CMP service rifle when I bought a Geissele for it. It had well over 5K rounds when it went into the carbine and has since made it through two two-day classes and lots of matches and drills. Probably nearing the 7000 round mark by now without a single problem.
I guess that’s the difference between first hand knowledge and third hand knowledge from a friend of a friend who heard something from someone else at a training class.
ETA: Those who feel more qualified than Sinister to pontificate on this feel free to lay out your qualifications for us to see.
What is acceptable on a service pistol designed to be shot generally inside of 25 yards is entirely different than what is acceptable for a fighting carbine that maybe needed to engage targets as far as 600 yards. Apples to oranges comparision. What is good on a sniper rifle is not necessarily good on a pocket pistol.
Pat
You misssed the point by a mile.
I like the Bill Springfield trigger in my LMT. Crisp 4lbs break and reliable.