My preferred sighting setup on an AR intended as a fighting weapon has long been a fixed front sight, Aimpoint, and flip up rear sight. I have always preferred a fixed front sight because I find that if my Aimpoint were to fail, I can use it as a giant ghost ring in conjunction with a fixed front fairly rapidly, and can maintain minute-of-man accuracy out to 50 yards or so. With a flip up front sight, this could not be done nearly as fast I dont think, because you have to go through the motions of flipping the front sight up.
I am curious though what others thoughts and preferences are, and especially experiences.
I’ve never used an Aimpoint in the manner you describe, but with such a large “rear sight”, couldn’t the same level of accuracy be achieved by enough point shooting training?
I personally use a flip up MI BUIS for front and rear, as I really enjoy the unobstructed view that a folding front sight gives my Eotech, not to mention when I do flip them up, I have an absolute co witness rather than a lower 3rd.
I prefer the standard fixed from sight with non-magnified optics. I don’t even really notice the front sight is there through the Aimpoint. On one rifle I am running a fixed BUIS with lower 1/3 co-witness, and on the other a YHM flip up rear sight. Both have standard fixed front sights.
I really prefer the fixed BUIS as you can transition to the irons with only a slight adjustment of your head. I don’t like looking through the irons all the time as you would with an absolute co-witness. That bugs me personally.
That said - with a magnified optic I can not stand a fixed front sight. I tried my new Leupold 1.5-5 on one of my RRA carbines and at 1.5 the front sight seemed like it was really in the way. That made me feel good about my choice to use flip-ups on my next rifle which will ultimately wear the Leupold.
In the end, like everything else, what’s a “better” setup probably depends on the person, their eyes, the rifle’s use, and your training. For me, the lower 1/3 co-witness seems to be a working combo for my eyes.
We are in complete agreement:
hawkeye, are you using a lower 1/3 co-witness or is the front sight at the same height as the center of the aimpoint? if it’s a lower 1/3 co-witness, using the tube as a ghost ring is going to be pretty far off from POI.
i have mostly flip up fronts and rears on my uppers (i sometimes use low power magnified optics and don’t like the front sight in the FOV), but i’m also in agreement that fixed is probably the best choice for a ‘fighting gun’. on my MARPAT painted rifle, i have a standard fixed front, and an LMT fixed rear BUIS, using a lower 1/3 co-witness. as mmike87 mentioned, it’s just so easy and quick to shift your eye from the irons to the dot and vice versa.
MM, mostly 1/3. I have one thats more centered. As for the POI, no, its not going to be hitting the same as normal, but I find I can keep things in the chest cavity out to about 50 yards. The idea of using the Aimpoint as a ghost ring with the front is simply an emergency use thing, in case the Aimpoint dies for whatever reason, and to allow you the ability to stay in the fight and be reasonably effective until you can get to a position to deploy the rear sight.
I’ve tried a fixed rear, and for me personally, I find it distracting.
mmike87, have you tried the 1.93 LaRue mount? A buddy ordered one and I can’t see the FSP with a 1.5-5, clean sight picture on 1.5 power. Mine will be here Monday.
I don’t notice the FSP through my aimpoint unless I want to. Of course my opinion shouldn’t carry any weight on a fighting carbine but I still prefer a pinned non folding front sight.
with a 1/3 co-witness, if i center the front sight in the tube like a ghost ring, and then turn on the aimpoint dot without moving my head, to see the offset, it’s significant - more than 2 or 3 feet at 50. you’d definitely have to remember to hold WAY low. i found it more accurate just to keep the front sight at the same height in the tube (bottom 1/3) and shoot it that way, without centering it in the tube in height.
On a 1x, I like a fixed front and rear. For a rear I just use a cut down carry handle.
I have to ask, what makes fixed sights so good? Is it the superior durability over flip sights, or the instant “deployment”? I prefer folding front and rear to get my view as clear as possible without any obstructions. I like being able to absolutely co-witness while also being able to have an unobstructed view. To me its the best of both worlds. And what situation warrants the speed of solid rear sights if an optic fails that couldn’t just either be done as quickly with point-shooting or if time allows, the 1-2 secs to deploy flip sights?
For me, it’s a combination of durability and familiarity. A folding sight is more complex with springs/hinges/detents/etc…all of which are more likely to fail than a standard fixed FSB. Also, a fixed FSB with taper pins will not rotate or rely on set-screws/dimples to remain in place. I know you can pin most folding sights so this isn’t an issue, it seems like a lot of extra work with no extra benefits, IMO. The fixed FSB is simple and it works.
Plus, I’ve been shooting AR’s with a fixed FSB for more than 25yrs and using various optics for nearly 15yrs. I’m very comfortable with the sight picture and I don’t notice the FSB when I’m using my Eotech or Aimpoint. My brain knows the FSB is there, but ignores it unless it’s needed. With magnified optics, the FSB simply disappears anyway.
I understand why some people like flip-up front sights, but I have no use for them on my rifles.
Same as you, Hawkeye. I do have a few Acogs, but they’re not on my go-to weapons.
I would have to agree that for most applications i prefer an aimpoint with flip up buis, however; I do enjoy having magnified optics if i have to reach out and touch someone. So I like to have a acog in my ruck or pack already zeroed just in-case.
ACOG on a LaRue mount?
From what I’ve seen, especially in the dynamic arena, people don’t stop to flip up the sight(s). They try to use the optic as a ghost ring and it’s usually not pretty.
FWIW, we teach using the red dot with the power off, and using the optic as a ghost ring- no BUIS.
No matter if the FS is in lower 1/3 or center of the Aimpoint, it is relatively simple to get viable hits at CQB distances using the occular lens as a ghost ring.
It is more problamatic with an EO because the eye doed not naturally gind the center of a rectangle, but still possible.
When an EO that formerly resided went down for the 5th and final time as i was getting to go through the shoothouse with students, i left it off and ran 32 shooters through as my partner and was able to do failure drills, box drills and high % shots within the house.
If outside and i had the benefit of distance, i would have run the BUIS to the “up” pos and worked out.
I strongly prefer a fixed FS, and a folding BUIS but train with all permutations and have confidence in mt ability to hit what i am trying to kill.
No, I am using the standard one - the 1.5 I think it is.
Fixed front for me… I have no use for a folding front sight on a Carbine using a 1X CQB optic. Now on a gun with magnified optics…Sure… but not on a close in gun.
And I like a clear field of view in my Aimpoint. I’ve been involved in the debate over fixed or folding rear sites before… I’ve made my choice a long time ago…
it’s simple… use the Aimpoint (ghostring) if the sight fails at closer ranges… if it fails at farther ranges …you will have the .5 sec to raise the rear site…
I also prefer fixed front sights on a fighting gun. I run my 552 directly on the rail and with the sight turned off I have no problems getting torso shots by centering the front sight in the sight window.
At room distances you can just roll the gun and stock over your shoulder and sight down the barrel, Rob Haught’s method, to make COM hits.
Also, I don’t find the fixed front sight to be an issue with my EOTech. If you are using the optics properly with both eyes open and focusing on the target the front sight will not be notciable and will basically ghost out.
I don’t see a reason to not run a fixed front. Even on a magnified optic the FS blurs out and may as well not be there. Why pay more?
For the rear, I’ve had it preached at me a few times now to run a rear BUIS always up, or permanently fixed. To quote LAV: “It’s called a Back UP Iron Sight!” I don’t like doing it that way though, so all of my rears are folders, and down. I will occasionally practice shooting with the Aimpoint or EOTech as a big ghost ring, and the hits at 25 yds are minute-of-dude at best when I remember to put my nose on the charging handle. It’s a bit harder with a lower-third mounted optic, because I want to center the FS and end up shooting high.