Hi, I’m wondering if someone here can answer a question for me. I recently purchased an AR-15 and had it shipped to my local FFL here in Missouri. My FFL faxed a copy of his license to the dealer prior to shipment. Now that my FFL has received the gun, he is requiring the dealer to provide him with a copy of their FFL license. I’m not claiming to be anywhere near an expert on ATF regulations, but my limited understanding is that my FFL does not need a copy of the dealer’s FFL license to (legally) transfer the gun to me. It’s my understanding that dealers usually ship a copy of their FFL with firearms, but in this case the dealer refuses to do so.
Does anyone know if ATF regulations require my FFL to receive a copy of the dealer’s FFL before completing the transfer? Why would the dealer refuse to provide a copy of their FFL? If I can’t get this straightened out quickly, my FFL is going to ship the gun back to the dealer, and then the dealer will re-ship it back to another FFL in my area. Ridiculous!
By no means an expert in this arena. However, I have done this twice, and both times both FFL’s exchanged their FFL’s. Not sure why the other guy is being an idiot, but maybe the best option is to contact BATFE and ask for them to clarify.
I am fairly certain that if you Google the info something will pop in.
Although I am a rancher owner, my wife also has an FFL and does a good amount of sales in New Mexico. Your dealer and FFL holder is handling the transfer to you. There is no requirement for your dealer to receive a copy of the other dealer’s FFL; the name and address of the other dealer is sufficient. However, it is nice to record the other dealer’s license number. If your dealer purchases from a major supplier and dealer, you usually don’t see that supplier’s FFL.
The same holds true for an online purchase from one of the auction sites. A local individual in New Mexico makes the purchase from a private individual. However, since the other party is in another State, he must ship to an FFL holder such as my wife. She records the firearm in her bound book with other sellers information, usually name and address.
Your dealer may be a little extra cautious for some reason.
I think my FFL is just covering himself, but it’s a shame the system is so ass-backwards that one set of unique regulations can be interpreted in several completely different ways. I gave my FFL the FFL# of the seller before the gun was even shipped.
I know another FFL in my city who says he’d have no problem with this transaction. My original FFL is going to talk to his ATF guy today to see if he will verify that this is okay. If he doesn’t, I’m thinking of asking my original FFL to ship the gun to the other FFL within my city, instead of shipping it all the way back to the seller and then having the seller ship it all the way back to my second FFL. That way I can minimize the amount of ahipping and risk of damage.
Are there any regulations against my original FFL shipping to the other FFL in the city I live in?
I’ve had this happen before. But my FFL let it slide since I had done and NFA item before, and she knew I wouldn’t do anything retarded to cause the situation any scrutiny.
I just spoke with BATF and they verified that it is NOT required that my FFL receive a copy of the seller’s FFL license. Now I just need to convince my FFL of this…
Makes me very glad that I have a great FFL to handle my transfers, and I’m very clear on what he requires in order to transfer a firearm to me. That way I know ahead of time and can be very clear with any seller as to what he will require.
why not, Grant? what if the sender isn’t an FFL? like, if I decided to sell a gun to someone and needed to send it to an FFL in the buyer’s state. You wouldn’t do that transfer?
When an FFL enters a weapon into his log book, he needs to enter a source for the weapon.
Law does not require the source to be another FFL, but your dealer may have a policy of having that kind of information recorded so that he can point the BATFE to whomever he got the gun from in case of a problem. The BATFE isn’t known for their sense of humor and as a result lots of guys with FFL’s try to exceed the standards in the interest of protecting their license. Most of the dealers in my area will not do a transfer from a private individual anymore. Apparently somebody from the BATFE came through breathing threats and they took it seriously and stopped doing transfers from non-FFL holders.
Because of how it appears in my log book. The book I have SPECIFICALLY wants the dealers FFL or DL # and I do not like blank spots in my book (as you just never know when the ATF is going to change a policy).
I accept guns from none FFL’s, but I require a copy of their DL.
The seller won’t send their FFL because their ATF agent advised them against this practice. My FFL is currently checking with his ATF guy to see what he recommends.
Given that the seller won’t send their FFL, and my FFL won’t do the transfer without it, does anyone know of any other alternative that would serve in this situation to complete the transaction?
If this turns out to be a no-go, then my FFL will ship the gun back to the seller. What I’d rather do is have him ship the gun to another FFL in town that I know will do the transfer. Are there any regulations preventing him from doing this?
The ATF is advising against sending a signed copy of an FFL to a vendor they are doing business with?
…this despite the fact that exchange of signed copies is a STANDARD PART OF THE GUN BUSINESS??? The BATFE even has a little online tool where you can go and verify another person’s FFL. His “ATF agent” sounds like he has a bad case of cranial-rectal inversion.
If this turns out to be a no-go, then my FFL will ship the gun back to the seller. What I’d rather do is have him ship the gun to another FFL in town that I know will do the transfer. Are there any regulations preventing him from doing this?
No…but if your guy won’t sell the gun because he needs a source, getting another FFL in town to do it is going to have the same issue. Your guy has the gun and he needs a source. He wants an FFL to be the source before he’ll transfer the gun to you. You can ask him, but from the sound of it another local FFL won’t solve the problem.
again i agree that it is not nesisary but my dealer likes to have one so i insist that anyone selling me a gun sends one. He does it for nothing for me so i feel its a small thing to ask.
The seller FFL is concerned about someone using their FFL to buy guns illegally in their name (does happen). Tell the receiver FFL to send the seller FFL the first 3 and the last 5 of their license to the seller so that they can validate that they are a real deal FFL dealer. They can validate the the receiver FFL by going here and plugging the numbers in: https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/
Its kind of the dealers call when an individual sends him a gun. My dealer likes it to go ffl to ffl and i allways insist on it anyway. If you swap ffs when you are trading guns you at least have a paper trail if for some reason the other person trys to stiff you.