I’m a new AR owner and I’m still in the process of learning irons and the zeroing process. I am trying to zero at 100 meters. Please see pics and critique as necessary.
Five shot group at 50 meters, sighting in: (ignore the bottom 4 holes, my 14 y.o. sister shot those - first time with an AR too at 50 meters!) I’m not allowed to shoot rifle at 25 meters at my range, sight in at 50 with a few rounds only, then move on to 100 meters.
Nine shot group at 100 meters. I don’t know which one is the 9th, either top left or bottom left. The other hole is from another shot group, I overlaid the orange stick on target on my previous group. Black oval is 7 inches wide by 4.25 inches tall.
My POA is at the bottom of the target. So the oblong/circle is sitting on top of my front sight post in my sight picture.
What baffles me is that my POI at 50 meters seems about the same as my POI at 100 meters. Also, as per LAV in his Tactical Carbine video, your shot group at 100 meters should be tight enough that you can cover it with your fist. How do you “zero 2-3 inches high” at 100 meters if the group is that blown up? Just base it off the lowest shot?
Also, I find that it’s pretty fuzzy where the front sight post top and the bottom of my target meets… any pointers on this?
Your groups are favoring left low. I would adjust front post down a couple clicks and rear sight right a couple clicks. Then practice bunches. Your groups with iron sights on paper will cause you to beat yourself up. Don’t get frustrated with groups that seem large. Try different brands/weights of ammo and see if there is one your rifle likes better than the others. What twist is your barrel & what weight were you shooting that day?
The 3rd target is not in the right orientation. Do you know how I can flip this right side up? That’s the other thing, every shot group has a different pattern, so it’s hard for me to diagnose. Maybe I just need more trigger time.
Like, look at this one…they’re low right, although this was shot at 40 yards.
My rifle is a Norinco CQA 1:9 twist, I was shooting 55grain FMJ Norinco ammo. There was a bit of wind although I don’t know it it’s a factor at 100 yards esp since there are berms on both sides.
55 grain is fine for your 1/9 twist. Maybe try some 62’s and see how they group. According to your last pic I would still lower front post a couple but I would move rear sight left. If you want a 100 yard zero it needs to be a little low on your 40 yard target (bullet is still climbing to reach your line of sight). If you can get it centered and about an inch low at 40 you will be real close at dead on at 100. Work as close as possible to get group centered then move out to 100 to final tune elevation. Don’t expect amazing groups with a Norinco and iron sights. If I could get a centered group of about 3-4 inches I’d be happy with it and consider it done.
I would back down to 25 meters and use the following targets, if interested send me a PM and I will send you an email with the files attached. You then print them on 8x11 paper and head off to the range.
Are you referring to the pic with the black circle? Or the one I shot at 40 yards? I understand the trajectory and I’ve read the 100 meter zero thread. I just posted that to show that my groups are showing up on paper with different patterns. Even the two groups at 100 meters are grouping differently, and my first group (the one underneath the oblong target) also had a different pattern where there was basically a bit of vertical stringing forming an arc from about 7 to 10 o’clock position.
Thanks but I am not allowed to shoot rifle caliber at the 25 meter distance at my range. I am only allowed to sight in with a few rounds at 50, then move on to 100. The pic with the 40 yard shot group was done at a different range, indoor and only 40 yards is available. Since I got pretty close at 40, I thought I would just concentrate on 100, as I’ve read here on M4C a lot of times that nothing replaces actual zero at the actual distance. Also, those targets are available in a sticky here on M4C (just in case anybody else is reading and wants to print them off without having to PM you).
This is if I want POI/POA at 100, right? In the “Zen of the 100 Meter Zero” thread, F2S said he zeroes 2 inches high at 100 meters so as not to block your target with your front sight (or something along those lines). This is also how Paul Howe does it, although he goes 3 inches high (I linked his writeup in another thread I started). So if I want to hit 2-3 inches high at 100 meters, that means I probably want to be dead center at 40 or 50 yards?
You are confusing yourself and now me. If you want a 100 yard zero you need to be low about 1 to 1.5 inches at 50. If you do not want a 100 yard zero (POI 2-3 inches high at 100 yards) you need to be dead on or a little high at 50 which will also put you dead on again on the bullets path back down around 200. If you are having trouble with groups drifting with the same ammo you may have rifle issues.
Iron Sights.
When it comes to irons I prefer to zero 2 inches high at 100 meters. This is primarily to maintain awareness of the target at distances that would otherwise obscure the target with the front sight. Since iron sights require the shooter to focus on the front sight for accurate placement of shots, it is difficult to see what to shoot at as distance increases.
ETA: I guess I never realized it until you brought it up that it would not be a 100 meter zero per se if I want the groups 2-3 inches higher than POA at 100 meters. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I want to zero my rifle at 100 meters, have the red dot POA=POI at 100 meters, but the irons set to hit 2-3 inches higher than POA while actually shooting at the 100 meter distance. This is all based on the 100 meter zero thread by F2S and Paul Howe’s write up.
How do I find out whether it’s me or the rifle having issues? I’m a new AR shooter so I’m not all that confident with my skill, although I’m decent with slow fire with a pistol (2 - 2.5 inch groups with a Glock 17 at 7 yards).
You would be better served with a 50 yard iron sight zero if you want your POI high at 100. This will also make it easier for you to zero your rifle given your range limitations. 50 yard zero will give you a Point Blank (bullet will impact within X inches of POA) of 3-4 inches all the way to 250ish. I’m not a big proponent of Point Blank shooting drops but for iron sights it is perfectly fine.
Some new AR’s that have accuracy problems have been found to have loose/under torqued barrel nuts in the past. I do not know about Norinco’s ‘ARs’ but I will assume quality suffered at the price point they are sold for.
Point Blank is also referred to as ‘Battle Zero’. Targets posted above by PlatoonDaddy are Point Blank/ Battle Zero targets for people sized kill switches. PC is busted so I cant post up any charts.
Basically Point Blank shooting is knowing how big of a group is acceptable at what maximum distance. Say you are hunting an animal that has a 10 inch kill switch. You can hit that kill switch any where in those ten inches and shut it off. That means you would want a Point Blank zero where the bullet never climbs above or drops below 5 inches of your line of sight (5 high plus 5 low equals 10 inches total). This is where the software comes in. Enter muzzle velocity and select 10 inch Point Blank. Software will give you a distance to zero at and the maximum distance where bullet will drop 5 inches. You can set your Point Blank to what you need. Of course a lower (in inches) Point Blank will be better over shorter distances on smaller targets and a higher Point Blank will be better over a longer range on larger targets. Remember, bullets fly in an arch not a straight line. Common Point Blank zeros for AR family are 25/300 (25 on bullets path up & 300 on path down) & 50/200 (50 on way up, 200 on way down). The 50/200 will have a lower Point Blank value than the 25/300 because the bullet has to climb and fall less.
For iron sights Point Blank is great. Put the post on it and press the trigger. I disagree with Point Blank shooting on long range shots using magnified optics. The further you shoot the larger a Point Blank you will need.
You may want to get another shooter or two of known quality to run you rifle. They would be able to see of the rifle shoots decently and also get you in the ballpark as far as your desired zero (+2-3" @ 100 m/y, etc.).
Target is 7" x 4.25". I was rushing a bit on the one on the top left so the group opened up a bit and there were more low shots. The other three groups look similar.
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