Gang,
Just wanted to pick your brains and see what kind of opinions you all had on these two types of ammo. A little background for you, I carry a Colt Commander and have been reading up on carry ammo. I came across these two and figured i'd ask here. One more thing, is +p ammo recommended in 1911's? Before you say read the manual, I would but am TDY currently and left it at home.
Thanks,
O
There are much better choices than either one…
+P is OK in 1911’s, but may accelerate wear and breakage. Agencies around here issue RA45TP and have observed no major problems with steel frame pistols.
Where expanding/deforming ball ammo is needed, both are viable choices. I would lean toward the Corbon.
Is there a reason you’re not opting for a premium JHP, though?
I don’t have any experience with the EFMJ you mentioned. I am carrying Federal 230gr +P HST in my 1911 after reading DocGKR’s recommendation on Tactical Forum, and have had zero feed issues or malfunctions of yet. It also has much less flash than the 230 +P GoldenSaber I used to carry.
I tend to do most of my training with standard pressure loads though.
A nice thing about the HST is it is relatively low priced compared to many other JHP’s out there. You can get 50rnd boxes from Ammo to go for $24.
-RD62
Gents,
Appreciate the info. I have read threads (here and other places) on some 1911's not feeding JHP's properly and don't want to have a malfunction during a real world situation. I like JHP's and carry it on duty in .40 mind you but prefer the .45 for off duty carry. If you gents think JHP is the way to go with the 1911 platform I will give it a try. I have both 200 and 230 grain TAP FPD which I didn't get to shoot before my TDY.
Thanks,
O
Red box TAP 230 or 200 and Ranger RA45T are some of the best. I have one 1911 that’s seen over 4000 rounds of Ranger with no problems. I see more magazine issues than ammo issues with 1911’s. With good mags and a properly setup 1911 you should have no problems shooting most JHP rounds. As far as +P rounds goes, as long as your gun is setup to shoot them no problem. A constant diet of +P ammo will wear parts faster.
Thanks gunfighter13, I appreciate you sharing this info. with me.
O
Corbon DPX really is on the tip the cutting edge as far as hollowpoints go in my opinion.
That’s another reason I like the HST. It’s price is really not that much more than a lot of FMJ range ammo. This allowed me to shoot a few hundred rounds of it to ensure it was feeding reliably. I had zero malfunctions. It also allows me to practice more with my carry ammo. My former Dept would alot us some practice ammo for our duty weapons each month, but carry and practice ammo for off-duty/BUG was on our dime. Now that I’m no longer working in a LE capacity ALL ammo is on my dime, and as we are all to aware it ain’t getting any cheaper!
-RD62
“Corbon DPX really is on the tip the cutting edge as far as hollowpoints go in my opinion.”
Why do you believe this; any data?
This information was taken from www.stoppingpower.net where it was originally posted by user/moderator MSU721. Based on the information he has provided, I feel that in this caliber, DPX is the winning ticket, bar none.
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .45 ACP 185gr. +p DPX
Testing Platform:
S&W 2 ½” Snub
Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Penetration: 13.875"
Recovered Weight: 182.7 gr.
Expansion*: .824 cal.
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .45 ACP 185gr. +p DPX
Testing Platform:
Glock 21
Barrier:
2 Layers of 16 gauge steel
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Penetration: 15.75"
Recovered Weight: 184.9 gr.
Expansion*: .551 cal.
Notes: Disk 1 @ 4.5” Disk 2 @ 14.0”
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .45 ACP 185gr. DPX
Testing Platform:
S&W Scandium Commander
Barrier:
2 Layers of Wall Board
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Penetration: 14.00"
Recovered Weight: 184.5 gr.
Expansion*: .803 cal.
Velocity: 1043.0 fps
Notes: Wall Board, Pish-Aw!
Testing Platform:
Glock Model 30
Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Velocity: 1024.0 fps
Penetration: 14.00"
Recovered Weight: 184.2 gr.
Expansion*: .81 cal.
Round # 2:
Velocity: 974.1 fps
Penetration: 14.75"
Recovered Weight: 183.4 gr.
Expansion*: .830 cal.
Round # 3:
Velocity: 960.3 fps
Penetration: 13.50"
Recovered Weight: 183.3 gr.
Expansion*: .880 cal.
Round # 4:
Velocity: 934.7 fps
Penetration: 12.75”
Recovered Weight: 181.5 gr.
Expansion*: .812 cal.
Round # 5:
Velocity: 964.3 fps
Penetration: 14.00”
Recovered Weight: 183.2 gr.
Expansion*: .808 cal.
Average: 971.60 fps
High: 1024.00 fps
Low: 934.70 fps
Standard Deviation: 33.00 fps
Extreme Spread: 89.95 fps
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .45 ACP 185gr. DPX
Testing Platform:
Glock Model 30
Barrier:
16 Gauge Steel Plate
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Velocity: N/A
Penetration: Out The Side of the Block
Recovered Weight: 203.00 gr. – Steal ingot fused to front of the projectile
Expansion*: .500 cal.
Round # 2:
Velocity: N/A
Penetration: 20.75"
Recovered Weight: 185.00 gr.
Expansion*: .496 cal.
Round # 3:
Velocity: N/A
Penetration: 20.25"
Recovered Weight: 184.30 gr.
Expansion*: .498 cal.
Round # 4:
Velocity: N/A
Penetration: 16.50”
Recovered Weight: 186.30 gr.
Expansion*: .494 cal.
Round # 5:
Velocity: N/A
Penetration: 21.75”
Recovered Weight: 185.00 gr.
Expansion*: .495 cal.
Average: N/A
High: N/A
Low: N/A
Standard Deviation: N/A
Extreme Spread: N/A
Stopping Power, and its pushers, is a joke.
Theories about the reaction of a human or animal upon being shot do not affect the above data that was posted, courtesy of www.stoppingpower.net mod/user MSU721 .
Whether you agree with Evan Marshall’s thoughts and his studies should not affect how you see a gelatin test.
How you percieve what a projectile does to the human body does not influence one bit what it ACTUALLY does. Same goes for gel, even though gel ain’t people and vice versa.
I do not think a theory debate on wound ballistics would serve this thread well, hence I only post the data and remain 100% neutral on how anyone wants to interpret it…me? I see a massive permanent cavity and the fact that this is about the only handgun round design that consistantly makes it through 2 layers of 16ga steel, much less with the beans to do anything. IWBA 4-layer and wallboard tests also show it to be very consistant as well as devestating.
I want you to close your eyes and take a deep breath.
In through the nose, out through the mouth.
Now open them.
Now re-read my post.
Do you see anywhere in said post saying the 185gr+P DPX round is bad, poor, or better yet, any words on it?
You do not.
You do see my post being critical of Stopping Power. The link provided contains the neccesary amount of evidence to cast doubt on nything involving Marshall and Sanow, and the bogus OSS and stopping power claims. There is no “theory”, only fact. “His studies”, thats a laugh and a half. How about you ask to see his data. Ask him to show you all of hi work, all of his data, all of those bullets he has, everything. Then ask good ol’ Ed Sanow.
No I dont trst the data posted. A few shots(sometimes 1), per pistol, per medium, in what we can only guess is/isnt properly calibrated 10% Ballistic Gelatin. How about that data. How about posting a link to the actual thread where this test took place so we can see the “massive permanent cavity”. Permanent cavity is only going to be what the bullet itself comes in contact with.
BTW, you clearly arent 100% nuetral. If you were, the information contained in the link provided would be of interest.
PS, wet phonebooks and newsprint arent good choices for ammunition medium. You can do better with things found around the house, apartment, or dorm. See Duncan MacPhersons testings with milk cartons(not jugs) and water. I myself use a sort of trough filled with 1 gallon Ziploc bags.
Oh, and I wouldnt use 62gr TAP as an all purpose round. Depending on barrel twist, an OTM might be a better choice.
Several points to address here:
I went with M855, it works/worked for my friends overseas, it will work for me. Best? No. Good enough? yes. I also like that I have put M855 through a 3/8" steel plate AND THEN a car-door. Both sides. It is sealed and that is a bonus as I store my rifles fully lubed and ready to go.
I did read the information you provided that which debunks the “testing methods” (or data tabulation methods?) used by stoppingpower.net and it’s supporters. I don’t want to pick sides here, but both groups DID come up with the same ammunition recommendations. Both the Fackler and Marshall camps push the same loads most of the time.
Is their gelatin testing of the highest proceedural standards? I have no way of knowing. What I can do is say that it consistantly shows DPX doing better than other rounds, and while I have found no other gelatin tests on DPX, the other rounds tested on the website mirror performance done by proven sources in both expansion and penetration from what I have seen.
I like testing at 100 yards, I am not going to shoot something with my Ar-15 that is 5-50 feet away. Well, I say I am not, but if I do, it will be shot several times in rapid succesion. To be honest, I have a bit of trouble dead-centering a 3.5" wide cardboard juice carton at 100 yards with my AR EVERY TIME, and if I nick it, there went my test media. I have tried plastic milk-jugs though. Maybe after I get better I will use your method. I have read about and heard good things about it’s consistancy/accuracy.
No test I do in my back-yard is going to be of laboratory quality, what it is is fun and gives a reasonable representation of what I can expect, seeing as I never plan on hunting or defending myself in a laboratory either.
You implied doubt as to the validity of the test data submitted and therefor inferred doubt as to whether the round was as good/as bad/however, as it was portrayed. I took it how I took it and that is that, it could be taken a million different ways and justified a million others. My main point is that I like DPX and it cuts through car-doors better than anything else I ever shot at a car door with. Again, not lab quality testing, just observing what I saw in my yard. All of the testing I have ever seen on it backs up my preferenace for it.
Regardless of how you feel about the advertised or reported terminal ballistics of a particular bullet pushed to a particular velocity, there is much more to consider when choosing ammunition.
First and foremost, just like a gun, ammunition has to be dependable. For me, that eliminates all of the small boutique ammo makers like CorBon. The Big Three (ATK, Remington, Winchester) spend more money on their Quality Control processes than the boutique companies spend on production altogether.
While I’m sure there are exceptions out there, I have never dealt with any law enforcement agency that issued handgun duty ammo from any company except Federal (ATK), Remington, Speer (ATK), or Winchester. I’m not a law enforcement officer, but my understanding is that this is referred to as a “clue.”
I agree with everything, however, another aspect to consider is that most agencies do not allow their officers to stuff whatever they want in a magazine and call it good. This means Agency supplied duty ammo for their weapons. ATK and Winchester VERY aggressively court the LE market. Corbon and others are unable to compete on such a large scale. Hence the agency will buy RangerT and GoldDot before they will buy DPX. They have a budget and they have to keep costs in line, and lets face it, ATK and Winchester both make GREAT! products, host gel-shoots, and go the whole 9-yards.
I do belive that Winchester and ATK pay more attention to QC. If I recall, one of the two (if not both) hand-inspects each round sold to LE. This is not to say that Corbon is unreliable, but I do belive that they would have trouble competing with ATK/Win like you mentioned. It all comes down to economies of scale.
Marshall & Sanow never include any situations where one shot failed to stop someone so that additional shots had to be fired in their statistics.