I’ve noticed that the failzero coated BCG’s are getting quite the rave reviews lately. However, I noticed that the included hammer only works with single stage triggers. Since I’ve picked up a nice two stage Geissele SSA, that won’t work. FailZero has said that I can send the trigger group to them and they will coat the required parts. But that leaves me wondering…how will that affect the performance o the trigger? Will the minimal amount of added mass affect anything?
I just don’t have enough experience to know for sure. What say you all?
In my opinion, one should be more concerned with holding dimensional tolerances and frictional issues (where appropriate) when using surface treatments and coatings. Added mass is typically inconsequential.
Heh, forgive my lack of clarity. I didn’t mean mass as a measure of weight, I was referring to dimensional tolerances. I don’t know how much that coating adds, or how it would affect the performance. I was wondering if anyone has done, or knows of someone who has done this before.
Or, if not, do you all think this would affect the performance? In the grand scheme, it’s no big deal to use lube on the hammer just like usual. But the added capability of coated BCG and hammer is interesting to me.
You might contact the manufacturer and ask them directly. I would imagine they’ve done this before for other clients and will be able to tell you their coating thicknesses and any recommendations/issues for your application. I’m not familiar enough with this particular process to give definite answers, however, I doubt you’ll experience any measurable differences. Lubricity may actually be increased (lower friction) which is a benefit but they should be able to tell you for sure.
I called them yesterday about this, the guy said they’ve done 2-stage hammers before. My Geissele SSA trigger arrives this weekend and then I’m shipping them my BCG and hammer. If you’ve got the patience to wait for for me to get it back and put it to the test, I can let you know.
Feel free to call them, but from what they told me, it shouldn’t be a problem.
Or check out the FailZero forum under the Manufacturer’s section. I just dropped the question in the Questions thread to double-check.
Well, you don’t want to coat the trigger ;), you want to coat the hammer. I believe they quoted me 139 for the carrier group, 86 for the bolt, and said they’d do the hammer for free. But I doubt they’d give you a freebie if you sent them just the hammer. I’d call or ask in the Manufacturer’s forum.
You could just buy an entire BCG with hammer from them for 250 but it’s a single-stage hammer and they barely stake the gas carrier keys. Rainier Arms takes the FailZero BCG and re-stakes them but the one I got looked just as unstaked as the ones straight from FailZero, Rainier claimed it must have missed their re-staking process and offered to ship out a replacement but I’d just rather have my own coated, especially since I need my SSA hammer done.
There is definitely no hurry on this for me, so I can wait until I hear how it went for you. I will have to send in my hammer on it’s own, though, since I picked up the Spikes BCG coated by FailZero.
I was looking on MidwayUSA’s site for the trigger. The trigger was out of stock, but the trigger with free hat (same price) wasn’t. So I figured I’d give my other free hats some company and get my trigger, too.
The box came in today. It just had the hat in it! I called Midway, apparently they’re all out of stock and can’t even backorder it so they credited my account (including the shipping) and let me keep the hat. Frustrating, but Midway’s always given me fantastic customer service.
I just ordered one from Blackheart International, should get here next week.
Got the trigger today. Installed it to make sure it was gtg, much nicer than the stock Noveske trigger. Then packed the hammer and my BCG up and sent it to FailZero. I’ll let you know when it gets back!
Just got a call from FailZero to confirm shipping and billing. Took just under 14 business days for turnaround (which is what they quote in the FailZero forum, here).
I’m hoping it’ll get here for a weekend range trip, but it’s more likely to get here next week. I’ll toss up a picture or two when it arrives and let you know how it performs at the range when I get a chance to go.
I opened up the box and found my BCG and hammer securely packed in a cut-out, form-fitting styrofoam brick (like the pre-coated BCG/hammer combos they sell) and wrapped in about 10 layers of bubble-wrap.
I took out the BCG and thought, “gross, they shipped this all lubed up,” put the BCG down and rubbed my fingers together… dry. I’ve felt the coating before, but I was still surprised by how much it feels lubed when it is, in fact, bone dry.
Passed a function check just fine, I’ll be taking it to the range later this week or this weekend and I’ll let you know how it shoots.
Now for pictures:
BCG & Hammer:
Close-up of hammer:
Close-up of gas key staking (Noveske BCG):
FailZero pre-coated BCG gas key staking:
(I had originally planned to buy a pre-coated BCG and heard that Ranier Arms properly staked the gas keys. This is what I got from them. They said they may have missed this one, since it looks just like the stock FailZero staking, but I sent it in for a refund anyways. Plus the Noveske BC is the heavier M-16 style. I believe FailZero had to remove the keys to coat the bolt carrier and, as you can see above, they clearly re-staked the keys, so I don’t know why the pre-coated BCGs they sell are so poorly staked.)
This is all recent. I emailed Tim and he said they put individual orders on hold for the time being so they can concentrate on their major contracts. Fail Zero products are still cranking out as usual. No change there. They did not want people waiting long periods for their small items to be coated. I guess I’ll just have to wait it out.
I am not one bit surprised to hear they are off the market so to speak. In spite of all the ‘rave reviews’ by all the industry folks there seems to be a huge misunderstanding that this process is in any way directed to the individual owners and small shops. If this stuff take a serious foothold in the small arms community, I will be surprised.
I guess my misunderstanding stemmed from the entire thread dedicated to answering questions about coating individuals’ parts (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35550) and calling them up and getting individual coating pricing, not to mention actually sending my gear in, getting it coated, and then getting it back.
No doubt that they’d rather focus on any large contract jobs for LE/Mil/etc, especially since they look like they’re running at capacity. But I’d say that up until a day or two ago, there was a reasonable and concerted effort to direct a segment of their business to individual owners. Hell, the fact that they offered and advertised that very service proves it.
