Face paint a thing of the past?

Training Training and Tactics
1

i got out just before the switch to ACU. since the switch, i don’t think i’ve seen a single picture of soldiers wearing ACU with face paint on. we used to paint up for EVERYTHING… if we were in the field with weapons in our hands, we had paint on our faces. what good is camo if you dont bother to camo the single most visually recognizable object on earth to human beings/the thing you stick out at the enemy the most beside your weapon? obviously the need/appropriateness for face paint changes muchly during an occupation, where you’re not trying to hide your presence nearly as much. but we do still have active combat operations…

current or recently severed soldiers- is face painting a thing of the past?

just curious.

2

Can’t speak for the Army, but with a heavy focus on arid climate operations the need to camouflage one’s face is pretty low and sand likes to stick to cammie paint, which is pretty miserable and greatly imbalances the cost to benefit ratio.

3

When the current issued uniform says “Shoot me” in most environments, what would cammoing the face achieve???

Multicam is a different story, some pics of folks down range stateside with painted faces, but I still haven’t seen pics of Soldiers with it in A-Stan.

4

The environment is not one that lends itself to face painting, for the reasons mentioned above.

I painted my face for a mission, once, but it was more for intimidation than camouflage.

5

killer clown or skull?

6

Actually, just regulation dark/light high/low areas. Some of my Afghan police wanted to cammo up so there was a good mix of hollywood cammo on them.

7

Good point, I have been working around a lot of Army in the past couple of years and cannot remember seeing one in paint.

8

One thing that could help in the field is adding strips of burlap to the front & back of equipment.
No full blown ghillie suit, just something to add dimension and break up the unnatural ACU pattern.

mark

9

Camouflage should be environmentally specific. A foot patrol in an Afghan valley vs. a foot patrol in a jungle are very different. In daylight, in an Afghan valley, you can be seen from very far away. In a jungle, you can be within a few feet of someone and still be undetected.

Face paint is not effective in some environments.

10

Face paint would have bought us nothing at any point during the deployment, except gales of laughter.

Anything that’s classic COIN work, you’re going to want to avoid obscuring your face, we have a hard enough time trying to convince Afghans that we’re worth talking to when we don’t have beards.

11

I haven’t painted up since, oh, 2001. Not for the standard “Salam alakum” patrols. And no point in it while “hiding” in the desert with MRAP’s either. The old “METT-T dictates” hit face paint first.

12

I saw the transition go through during the Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo thing. Basicly you had a few problems with camo. First we were operating in on hard ball roads through towns, ect… 98% of the time we wanted to be seen. The other 2% about the only way you could be invisable was to dress in civies and drive a Toyota pick up. Even at night if operating mounted you still had to run with your lights on or you would have a nasty accedent with the locals.

Today in Iraq and Afghanistan you have much the same challanges. The soldiers are meant to be seen most of the time. Camo in the face and hands sends the message that I’m here to kill things and I don’t realy care about much else. That does have it’s place, but not when you are attempting to promote the “host nation” to get it’s act togehter so you can go home.

We also noted that it is very hard to hide from the Afghans. On one operation we knew there was a SEAL Team located on the mountain near us. After we had been on the ground a few days the locals asked us if the guys on the far hill were with us. We had never spotted the team, but the locals knew they were there. Since only 6 of us in the company knew they were there I don’t think we had exactly tipped thier hand.

Any how, that’s how I learned it.

13

We’re putting reflective tape on tactical vehicles, ffs.

The idea that we’re in any way trying to remain unseen or undetected in the prosecution of any conflict we’re in is window-dressing.

Maybe if we ever get into a no-shit slugging match with another 1st World military, where the truly little things may make that razor’s-edge difference in ability or effectiveness, we may see actual fieldcraft make a comeback.

14

WOW how fast we forget, WWII, Nam, Granada, Panama, they say life is the lesson. Many agency’s in Ca and other State’s are in the woods right now looking for cartel grows.

I would put money on the fact that they are cammoed, and armed to the teeth. HOP’s gig on the Az border is no different then what we are finding in the mountains of Northern Ca." And many other state’s"

The intel and actual photo’s show heavily armed hispanic groups to include sniper gear. I have to believe that taking the time to cammo up in terrain appropriate paint can be a life saver.

I guess I can see how it might be not as effective in astan and iraq.

There’s a time and a place to take the time to cammo up if your on top of your game.

To say it’s out dated is simply foolish and will certainly sway some on this site to blow it off cuz someone here said it was un cool or not needed.

I no this will be unpopular but I believe it’s wise for any warrior to have every tool available to them for each specific job or mission. If cammo paint will give a man the edge then it should be seriously considered.

Respectfully
D Williams

15

For SR or “stalking” face paint is a must.

For other types of operations not really much benefit in face paint; especially in environments that are permissive where the goal might be to win the hearts and minds so to speak…

16

Not quite what I was saying. War paint does have it’s place in many types of operations, but by and large we are not doing those types of ops right now in the conventional force.

Even in Nam most of the plain old grunts didn’t use face paint. In contrast the LRRP’s and other specialized units used camo effectively in the jungle to hide from larger forces or get close enough for deadly ambushes and raids. It’s a tool.

17

If I gave the impression that the art of camouflage is outdated or inapplicable to the modern battlefield, then I failed in my reply.

There are absolutely situations, missions, and environments that demand proper camouflage. The fact that most conventional operations today do not benefit from such measures does not mean that tomorrow’s will not, or that those operating in a different environment or with a different mission aren’t.

Then again, those individuals aren’t posing for many pictures.

18

I’d like to share a couple of thoughts. First I believe that everybody who reads this stuff do/don’t cammo, etc,etc,etc will apply it to their specific application, Military/ LEO/ Serious student.

As an leo with a fairly unique work location I do apply the message/post to my working conditions and geographical location.

When someone posts a bold statement like cammo has no real application in the real world I actually spin that statement in my head for personal/work application and merit.

On this specific cammo/no cammo issue, I see zero value in the statement or it’s rationale for my specific work needs.

As stated we are not SF or go fast guys, were simple deputies trying to to the best job we can with the limited tools we have and the very limited man power we have.

It is seriously foolish to preach this stuff when it was and is currently a tool to be used in specific applications by those who have a specific mission to accomplish.

Without going into detail there are LEO’s in the woods right now tracking bad guys “mexican cartel grows or meth labs” etc,etc who are most certainly wearing cammo paint for the right reasons right here is the US not astan or iraq or some other country.

My hat is off to you guys, as seals, rangers and s/f guys, anybody in the military for that matter.

The guys on this web sites are literally hanging on every word you guys say, or any advice you render, It’s gospel cuz your tier one or at least high speed guys buy the nature of your jobs.

I wasn’t offended nor was it my intent to stomp on somebody’s statement, I hate wearing cammo cream, I guess it’s not as bad now as it used to be and the color selection is better, it’s simply a tool for my work when needed.

I hope you understand my concern and thank you for your contribution.

Respectfully,
D Williams

19

No face paint in the current conflict, for reasons already stated. For the record, I did one tour at Infantry Training Bn (East) and we made the 03xx students cammie up. There was always some resistance to this (not from the students), but this was/is due to laziness and the “too cool for school” attitude that effects some grunts when it comes to the basics - not due to lack of relevance as a skill. I have never fought in a temperate zone , but I have trained in them and individuals w/ weak/nonexistent personal camo really stand out in the woods.

20

I had a BN CO once who made us camo up in the field. Mind you we were a Tank BN. You want to see the stupidest shit… bunch of Tankers in the Turret of a 60 ton tank wearing war paint… guess what Branch he was???

Infantry…:rolleyes:

There is a time and place for it, and the mission drives it…