Eye opener regarding other calibers.

AR/M4 Beyond 5.56/.223
1

I have been on the verge of buying a 6.5 Grendel and/or a 6.8 SPC upper, however I have been put off by ammo availability and price. I was hoping the situation would improve with the post-election mania subsiding however one check of Midway shows the ammo situation hasn’t changed.

I usually buy my .223 ammo in bulk online but today I decided to stop by Cabela’s just to look around. I was shocked to see box upon box .223 ammo while there wasn’t a round of 6.5 or 6.8 to be found.

I was also thinking about the advantage of .22 conversion kits for .223 that give you a cost effective training alternative. In addition it appears that the military is sticking with the 5.56 for the foreseeable future.

I could see SOF soldiers or hunters wanting to go with a 6.8, but why would anyone else?

2

If I invest in a whole new set of mags and ammo its going to be to a bigger step up like a .308.

Im waiting for more options in that market before I take the plunge, and decide on a platform. I want something that is going to have plentiful and relatively inexpensive mags…speaking of which seems like there is still no consensus there even though many are based on the SR25 pattern. Its mind boggling actually.

My Cabelas in Buda, TX usually has quite a bit of SSA 6.8SPC ammo, and in fact it was on sale last weekend.

3

6x45 is more promising in my opinion same mags same platform lil bit bigger bullet if you reload brass is as easy as your sizing die need more rifles chambered in it.

4

I bet if the military ever adopts a new caliber it’s going to be something entirely new rather than a cartridge designed to fit into an M4 magwell. If that ever happens there’ll be plenty of surplus 5.56 ammo and magazines available (unless they are banned first).

Even if a civilian was using a carbine for home defense I can’t see why they would need something other that a .223. Would a 115gr 6.8 SPC HP really stop an intruder that much quicker than a 77gr .223 HP?

Would a 6.5 / 6.8 really be that much more fun to shoot at the range compared to a .223?

I really wanted to buy a 6.5 / 6.8 because they’re new and different, however I can’t convince myself that it’s a good decision.

Alexander Arms and / or Remington should have FLOODED the market with affordable ammunition and offered other manufacturers incentives (rather than having to pay royalties) to produce uppers, ammo, and accessories. That would have given these new calibers the chance to make it past the “tipping point” in order to gain widespread acceptance. It seems like the 6.5 / 6.8 are starting to lose steam in the mainstream AR market.

5

[QUOTE=theoak;581446]I bet if the military ever adopts a new caliber it’s going to be something entirely new rather than a cartridge designed to fit into an M4 magwell. If that ever happens there’ll be plenty of surplus 5.56 ammo and magazines available (unless they are banned first).

Even if a civilian was using a carbine for home defense I can’t see why they would need something other that a .223. Would a 115gr 6.8 SPC HP really stop an intruder that much quicker than a 77gr .223 HP?

Would a 6.5 / 6.8 really be that much more fun to shoot at the range compared to a .223?

I really wanted to buy a 6.5 / 6.8 because they’re new and different, however I can’t convince myself that it’s a good decision.[/QUOT

For anti personell the 5.56 is plenty and then some especially with expanding/frangible ammo but a deer is one tough booger at times and after having killed a semi truck load of deer with a .222 rem I will definetly say it aint my first choice but a good 6mm + bullet is a swift killer with a little more crosshair wiggle room, and we can only geuss what the millitary will do.

6

I’ve put quite a few rounds into deer injured by cars so I agree with you on their resilience, and I can see the need for a larger caliber for hunting. But if you’re limited to a 5 round mag when hunting, why not go with a .308?

I bought a PTR-91 for just over $1,000 and a box of (50) twenty round magazines for $100. You can’t go wrong with plenty of surplus G3 accessories and .308 ammo available. :slight_smile:

7

Hehe agreed, personally when Im after venison my 45/70 is in my hands. I was under the impression that the OP had the 5.56 size platform and magazine on his mind. The .308 is a superior big game hunting round, a well placed shot will kill anything that walks this continent,

8

Pardun me sir you are the OP dooh!

9

Actually SSA is coming out with a plinking round soon. It may be $11 or $12 a box.
Where 5.56 is like $9 a box. Pretty close in price. 6.8 SPC does hit harder.

10

I imagine a 77gr HP to the chest would hit pretty hard… If that fails a .458 SOCOM would do the trick!

11

Dude, I would not want to stand out there at take a 77gr round… but it
was the Army spec ops guys that came up with the 6.8 round… i assume
for a reason they deemed valid. Rounds are still too expensive…

T

12

The 6.8 is not loosing any steam but I think a lot of that is hunting. For an SBR or hunting it’s a much better choice than 5.56 but it may not be the right tool for your application. 6.8 also has much better intermediate barrier penetration than even the heavy 5.56 that can be a significant advantage for LE use.

I can’t tell you the last time I saw any .223/5.56 that I would use for HD on the shelf around here, just varmint ammo and 55gr FMJ. For defensive ammo the price difference was less than a $1 last time I checked TAP 75gr 5.56 against 110gr 6.8.

I also do not believe you are going to come out ahead in cost with a different platform/manual of arms .308 if you factor in the training costs to be proficient it it’s use. The AR lets you train mainly with a 5.56 upper and cheaper 5.56 ammo.

13

I decided to find a happy medium in between 5.56 and 7.62x51 in my AR build.
I chose the 6.8x43 because it fits that niche.
“Better” ballistics than the 5.56 and similar ballistics to .308 within 300 meters.

Its your life and clearly your choice.

14

As for the “if I’m gonna change, I’ll get .308.” No, you won’t. The .308 is not an option for the magwell of an AR15. You have no choice but to move to the AR10 platform.

That leaves you actually choosing from the PTR/G3, M1/M14, FN/FAL, and other big, heavy, longer barreled, and expensive main battle rifles. It’s not just an option for the AR15, it’s a completely different firearm. .308 has significant recoil, does not handle as easily, and no, it will not kill anything walking the face of the earth reliably. That’s why other calibers exist to do the job on bigger targets, at longer ranges - or as a crew served weapon.

What the OP IS talking about is alternate intermediate assault rifle or sporter calibers. 5.56 is the standard - and so far, anything else is a wildcat. Wildcat cartridges may be popular, but aren’t the kind of thing you see in a Western Kansas gas station or Georgia crossroads country store. They are not to be had at a 'Mart, ready for someone to impulsively pickup a box because their work schedule allowed them a moment’s notice to go plink at the local gravel yard.

Many 6.5 and 6.8 shooters buy in bulk, reload, and dedicate themselves to using the round in the AR platform for what they offer: superior performance - either at long range, or at combat ranges needing more lethality. That’s why the 6.5 holds the 600m record on paper, and hunters shoot 6.8 on hogs and deer. They are not interchangeable in use any more than .22-250 and .45-70.

Ammo availability at your Cabela’s has nothing to do with what the rest of the country is doing. Some shooters have been using both for at least 5 years. Others haven’t heard of either yet. What the local manager perceives as a possible market may be right - or not. One customer doesn’t justify having a pallet of ammo on the sales floor, and having a sale to dump a slow mover may not be a big help.

As for why to go to 6.8, it’s simple - to provide more power downrange out of a 16" barrel. Anything the average soldier or hunter can shoot, he can shoot with a 6.8 and get more reliable results. But it’s not a cheap gravel pit plinker - yet. And there’s no knowing with certainty when or what the military will do. Choosing any caliber for it’s potential surplus price is pretty chancy, ask the guys circa 1960 what they foresaw as the next issue caliber.

15

16

I didnt say the earth buddy, I said this continent, handloads have accounted for 2 8’ black bears my dad took in Alberta with a T/C encore, one shot kills. I stand by my statement.

17

I made the jump to 6.8 and have no regrets. Even though it entails buying additional dies and brass. There is a good selection of bullets and hopefully more in works.

Accuracy is very good, with warmer weather coming I can not wait until there is a chance to do some long distance shooting.

18

As for why to go to 6.8, it’s simple - to provide more power downrange out of a 16" barrel. Anything the average soldier or hunter can shoot, he can shoot with a 6.8 and get more reliable results

I’f you reload you can afford it and if you don’t, hang in there. It will come down in the future. My next build will be the 6.8 with a 20" Kreiger cut rifled barrel to help with accuracy. Of course a quality scope and other options will help this old man be as accurate as possible. When you get old you have to reach for any advantage you can to help you along.:slight_smile: