Experienced Handgun Reloader Needing Help Getting Started with Rifle

General Firearms Reloading & Ammunition
1

I spent more than 10 years behind a Dillon SDB, loading all the popular defense handgun rounds for my IPSC and IDPA matches. That setup got sold off, and after a hiatus of several years I am now back in operation but this time with the RL550. I’ve only assembled several hundred rounds of 9mm so far, but have plans to get back into .45 ACP.

Obviously though, I now for the first time have the ability to load .223/5.56 for my AR (!). Never having produced rifle ammo though, a number of questions come to mind from having read various information.

Particularly, case prep seems to be a bigger issue. What is required for .223/5.56 that is not for handgun, such as trimming to length, reaming primer pockets, etc.?

Also, do .223/5.56 cases have a definate limit on the number of re-uses? I’ve never really bothered worrying about that with handgun cases.

I’d also be interested in any good load recipes. My use would be general practice along with the occasional IDPA DMG match at my local range. Nothing high performance is needed, just a decent plinking load.

Any other considerations I’m not thinking of here also are welcomed.

Thanks for any help.

2

You sound just like me a few years ago except I had an RCBS load master. I now have the 550, love it. I used to load 10mm & .45 ACP for IPSC shooting and switched over to loading .223 a few years ago, I’m very glad I did. I just got a new STI Lawman in .45 ACP so I’ve just switched it from .223 to .45. If you’ve not done so purchase extra tool heads to make switching calibers quicker. It’ll keep your dies where you left them. Resulting in consistent ammo from batch to batch.

Case prep is more labor intensive. First, get a chamber gauge! It’ll save you a lot of stuck cases in your chamber. It’s a bit tricky to get the FULL LENGTH sizing die set correctly. I have not had many issues with crimped primer pockets.

I use Dillon case lube, don’t be stingy with it. Again stuck cases but this time in the sizing die. I lay them out on an old cookie sheet to spray after I tumble them.

Regarding trimming: I load my 55 gr blasting ammo without trimming. For my 75 (and now 55) grain loads that I run through my Noveske with SS barrel I trim to 1.760 - max length of the case rather than the ‘book’ value of 1.750. I have found that ARs with NATO chambers (longer) like brass trimmed to 1.760. Basically I trim brass (and use a single head stamp) for my “accurate” ammo and just slap together my blasting ammo. I splurged on the Dillon case trimmer (motorized unit mounted on top of a sizing die).

Load data: I just started using Hogden CFE223. I have found I can use it for 55 and 75 grain loads. Now I only need 1 powder to get the performance I want out of the 2 loads I build out. Go to Hogden’s site for load data.

One tip: Keep the shell plate and ram clean with a brush. I’ll help with consistent bullet seating/OAL. Once I get my cases prepped and primer tubes filled with primers I can easily load 300 rds in an hour with the 550 but I don’t push it.

Hope that helps.

3

Didn’t I sell you my Super Swager years ago? :confused: I know it was someone back East.

Low Drag covered it pretty well. You’ll have a lot more prep involement in the cases. But the savings can be $0.20 per round.

I used to get 2 reloadings out of my .223 brass and dump them… Now I’m probably going 4 times or so depending on the primer pocket’s tightness.

4

Case prep is necessary using the 550,I do all case prep before loading,
the difference in straight rifle case loading is skipping one step,case belling-
Now my neighbor who loads on a 550 also has went into having his brass fully processed commerically to eliminate the process of prepping brass-so far we have found people to do it for 28-40 bucks a thousand
For powder I found WC748 the best as it’s ball and it is treated like WC846 for flash and running cooler

5

I don’t consider myself to be an “experienced” reloader.

But I tend to do most of my rifle reloading with a single stage press.

Case prep is going to be the biggest use of your time - tumbling, crimping the primer pocket (if military brass), initially adjusting the headspace and then resizing and trimming (or chamfering/deburring). And then tumbling again before loading up.

On the rare occasion I want to run a batch of blammo ammo on a Dillon, I don’t even put a sizing die in the press.

I have always been impressed with Dillon’s powder measure. It consistently drops within 0.1 +/- grains of (non-stick) powder.

Where I like to have more control is the bullet seating depth and consistency. With .223/5.56, you’re going to have a lot more variation in case length than with pistols. Loading 9 ball in a Dillon is a no-brainer because the straight wall pistol cases don’t stretch that much, and what is nice is that you get a lot more consistent COL length (-0.001 but more often than not 0.000 to +0.005 inches variance). Different story with rifle brass - they can stretch quite a bit during firing, and may end up stretching a smidge more after you resize them. Fortunately you have a bit of margin for error in COL for the .223, but I don’t want to chance blowin myself up with a spicy load.

With respect to seating consistency - with the Dillon it’s just one press and the bullet is seated. With a single stage press and a good micrometer seating die (Redding), I not only get more consistent COL but also less runout (“bulges or dents in a perfect circle”) by using the G. David Tubb method of seating, which involves not one but three presses. Place bullet on top of cartridge, seat partially (don’t press down all the way). Turn the case 1/3 clockwise. Another light (not full) press. Then turn the case 1/3 clockwise, and do a final press. What you get is less concentricity runout and a more accurate round. The results do make a difference at 100 yards and more IMO - just an FYI.

As an aside, various brands will have different case lengths out of the factory. Federal .223 cases, for example, tend to be a lot shorter than LC brass - so segregating headstamps may also be part of your case prep regimen. (One of the reasons why my reloading bench has a lamp and a cheap magnifying glass).

Also, in rifle reloading, you’re not flaring the case mouth like the Dillon powder die is with pistols (station 2), and crimping the rifle cartridge (station 4) is entirely up to your preference (Dillon 3 die sets come with a taper crimp die). General rule of thumb is if it’s going into a magazine fed semi-auto gun, you should crimp it. For bolt guns, don’t crimp. Some folks don’t bother crimping their .223 loads. I’ve done both, and for training purposes, I don’t see a need for crimping - yet.

So you can tell I’m a bit anal retentive/OCD about rifle reloading … take this post with a bucket of salt.

YMMV

6

I print these out and put them on the wall above my reloading bench.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm

7

The Dillon 550 is an excellent choice. I run a 650 (for 45 & 308) and a 1050 (for .223/5.56), but I helped a neubie set up a 550 many years ago. I still find my 20+ yr old turret press valuable as well.

Some tips:

Get some extra tool heads (several) for the Dillon. One use would be for the trimmer, if you go the Dillon route. The Dillon will save you a step since you size/trim in one step, but note it slightly undersizes the neck (in .223) - but only by about .0005 to .0010 (based on mine, anyway). No biggie - I find no difference in accuracy between using the Dillon sizer/trimmer and just using my FL RCBS, and I load quite a bit of 77 gr semi-precision ammo.

If you plan to use the Dillon trimmer for .308, it’s another story as mine grossly undersized the neck O/D (about .004", IIRC).

Drawbacks to the Dillon trimmer for .223:

  1. You have to hook it up to a vacuum cleaner.
  2. It has no expander ball in case you buy new LC brass - AMHIK (mine have dinged case mouths and need the expander ball before initial loading) - or if you need to re-work the case necks for any reason.
  3. You need to decap in a separate step - no biggie, just install a universal decaper in your primary reloading tool-head.
  4. It’s difficult to adjust your trim length and the unit can vibrate loose. (It’s a real pain in the ass - IMO - if you trim multiple calibers.)

Consider the more expensive Giraud trimmer. I went this route recently when I started loading .308/7.62 in volume. Walk over to it and filp the “on” switch - nice, but no big deal if you are only trimming .223.

Don’t pick up range brass unless you are sure it’s once fired. Don’t load Federal .223 brass more than 1 or 2 times (subject to case head separation).

For .223 I load LC and IMI only. IMI because I have a bunch, and LC I just buy new for my 77 gr loads. Both give me 4 premium loadings. I’ve gone 5 loadings (plus the initial factory firing) on the IMI, but saw some split necks.

8

I can’t comment on the use of a progressive loader. But I would remark that I am currently on the eighth firing of 220 mixed cases.
I have trimmed them to minimum length twice.

No problems.

24.7 gr tac with a 55 gr fmj.

They should last you a while.

9

Thanks for all the great replies, goodly M4 peoples! :thank_you2:

A lot of important considerations here, as I expected there would be. Looks like I’ll be “making a list and checking it twice”.

Really looking forward though to seeing some “real gun” ammo cycling through my new 550!

Thanks again.

10

Looks like everyone has already covered the bases. I thought I’d toss in my 2 bits.

I track all my cases so I know where they are at in their life with the exception of how many reloads they have gone through.

I’ve learned that the best way to go about this is to do everything in bulk. So far all I have loaded is either for training classes, the couple of times I have been able to go out shooting, and maintaining my on demand ammo (1k). I’ll do a weekend of nothing but sorting cases and cleaning. Another weekend of first stage prepping, and another of second stage prep (if needed).

After 2 training classes, and a couple of local buys of “Once fired LC brass” I am sitting on near 7k of brass.

All my once fired brass gets the following treatment for my home brew M193;

*Cleaned and polished

*Lubed with 8:1 of 99% isopropyl alcohol and pure liquid lanolin ($15 cost will lube by math in the millions [with an “M”] of cases).

*Pass 1 on my Lee Loadmaster - Decap, Size and trim with a Dillon 1200 (not a big deal to hook up my 1 gallon $20 shop vac - between the trimmer and the vac, I wear my ear pro), bell the case mouth with a Lyman “M” die, then ejected straight into 1 of my tumblers until full, then set aside to run for a while while I start filling my other tumbler

*Ream primer pockets with a Hornady primer pocket reamer on my drill press and custom case vise.

*Pass 2 gets everyone loaded. Decap again to make sure there is no media in the primer pocket, sizing die backed way out to center for the primer, powder drop is consistent +/- .1gr., COAL consistent +/- .002, and Lee factory crimp. Every 200 rounds (1 primer tray loading) I do a few random checks on the loaded rounds for COAL (especially the last three that dropped), and powder drop. Any anomalies, I separate that lot weigh every single round and cull any that are off by 3 gr. (allowing for case and bullet weight variances) and if my COAL drifted on me more than .005 (has not happened in the 4k that I have loaded), I’ll measure all of them.

*All cases are marked with a black band on my RCBS case prep center (that is all it does now - there went $100). The black band makes it easy to ID my cases at the range, and I know that those have the mil crimp removed so I can skip that step on the next loading.

*Load up my stripper clips and store.

I mark all various brass containers letting me know where they are at in life. Ex - Prepped and ready to load, Clean-size-trim, Needs reamed (size and trim is a given), Size-trim, etc.

My brass is only separated by LC and Random range. The random range is mixed brand 5.56 and .223. Those I consider lost brass ammo for the occasion I get to go shooting where the chances of recovering my brass is low.

Come my seasonal layoff from work, I will camp out in my garage for a few days and get all my brass in the prepped and ready to load stage, and presuming I have finally been able to do my load tweaking (see signature), load up all I can given the amount of powder, bullets, primers I have on hand.

Of course I’ll screw myself and assemble a DMR rifle this fall and need to get a bit more exacting on my home brew MK262 ammo, and be real anal about head stamp, number of firings (gonna have to find another color marker).

Tips;

Tumble in Walnut media (pet store reptile bedding) with 2 tablespoons of Maguires Car Polish, and 1/2 a sheet of laundry dryer sheets (cut into 1" squares) to keep the dust and static down.

Ziploc freezer bags for lubing and storage.

Don’t let your mind wander while you are loading, stay focused or you will be cussing when you found that you ran out of powder or primers a while back and have to sort out the problem children, disassemble, and toss back into circulation.

Load in smallish lots (100, 200,…) and keep them separated in case there are any issues.

FWIW -
AA2230 - 23.6gr
Hornady 55gr. FMJBT w/cannalure
COAL 2.20"

Fired in my rifle (Centurion 16" CHF, Vltor MUR, PSA Auto BCG, PSA FCG, 6x42 Kalinka scope w/SVD reticule, prone off the mag) I am getting 1.4" 10 shot MOA with most of the variance being left/right. If I was a skilled shooter, I suspect that my current recipe is sub MOA in my rifle (my last outing only had a .75" vertical).

11

On the 650 I stick a decap die (or a FL sizing die turned out to turn it into a decap die, removing the expander ball from it if a Dillon FL) on station 1 of the TRIMMING toolhead. You probably have room for this on a 550 TH as well. I then stick another decap die on station 1 of the loading TH to pop out the media from the flash hole since I tumble between the TRIM TH run and the LOAD TH run.

–

12

Rifle and handgun loading isn’t all that much different. They both use 70% copper to 30% zinc alloy brass that is differentially heat treated to have a hard case head, a elastic case body, and a soft case mouth. The case body of rifle brass is stretched more though due to having a larger brass surface area and operating pressures. So, you generally want to trim the case mouth of once fired rifle brass…and then monitor your lots to see how often you need to trim after that. I get tons of free .223 brass, so I usually trim the mouth to length before the first reload, and throw out the brass after the 5th reloading. Some guys will push it to 10-15 reloads, but at that point you’ve really thinned out the case body quite a bit, and the soft brass of the case mouth is almost completely trimmed away. Once you get to that stage, you have to anneal your case mouth to soften up the brass otherwise you will split your case mouth, and you’ll probably need to start neck turning your brass after about 10+ reloads to keep good accuracy.

So, just like handgun brass you want to lube your rifle brass. First time reloaded .223, I will trim the brass, and then swage out the primer pocket to get rid of the military crimp. I use a Dillon 550, and I will decap and resize in station one. I will then pull the brass off the shell plate, swage out the primer pocket, and then trim the brass. I don’t use any additional tool heads, I’ll just prepare all my brass this way before I start loading. I keep the case lube on there, because your brass can still get stuck in the sizing die if you run it through again. After the brass prep, I will put the brass back into station one, and start production.

13

It’s more like 90-95% copper with the balance Zinc and a little bit of other trace elements.

that is differentially heat treated to have a hard case head, a elastic case body, and a soft case mouth.

Brass does not “heat treat” like steel. It’s annealed several times throughout the draw and the case head ends up work hardened.

The case body of rifle brass is stretched more though due to having a larger brass surface area and operating pressures. So, you generally want to trim the case mouth of once fired rifle brass…and then monitor your lots to see how often you need to trim after that.

Much of rifle case stretch is due to sizing and the use of an expander ball. Get rid of the expander ball and you get rid of a lot of trimming.

Some guys will push it to 10-15 reloads, but at that point you’ve really thinned out the case body quite a bit, and the soft brass of the case mouth is almost completely trimmed away. Once you get to that stage, you have to anneal your case mouth to soften up the brass otherwise you will split your case mouth, and you’ll probably need to start neck turning your brass after about 10+ reloads to keep good accuracy.

The case will get a thin ring about a 1/2 inch forward of the case head. Eventually it will separate. The soft brass of the case mouth isn’t “trimmed away”. There’s a little trimming, but that part of the case becomes work hardened.

So, just like handgun brass you want to lube your rifle brass.

I don’t use case lube for handgun brass. :confused:

I’ve tried it before, but as far as normal production, I don’t do it.

14

I guess it depends on the manufacture. Federal Premium have been advertized for years as a 70/30 ratio.

Good to know. I’ve never followed the brass factory treatment that closely since I never keep my brass long enough to justify annealing it myself.

Most don’t. Dillon claims that it will double the life of your carbine reloading dies.

It is always good to hear other people’s perspective on a hobby that we all think we know pretty well.

15

Of course, most people won’t wear out their first carbide die in their lifetime…

I’d rather just buy a new die than deal with lubing handgun brass my whole life :wink: . Lubing rifle sucks enough as it is…

16

No doubt. Just your first thousand rounds of pistol ammo, and the carbide die has paid for itself in lifesuck avoidance.

17

To each his own I guess. I’ve never found the ziplock bag method to be all that inconvenient.

18

So do you leave the lube on the pistol case or re-tumble?

I keep a tub of Imperial sizing wax on my bench and will usually hit the first pistol case through. But loading and shooting still lubed ammo just does not seem like a good practice to me.

I tumbled some loaded .357 ammo just once (in corncob). My S&W locked up tight (catastrophic failure) as a result.

19

After I’ve finished loading, I dump all the cartridges in a big beach towel and lightly spray them with alcohol. Twist the towel around the cartridges leaving space along the length for movement, and let them slide left/right inside the towel with the alcohol. Cleans them quick and easy. It takes a little longer with rifle cartridges since they tend to hang-up more in the towel.

20

You don’t have problems with the lube getting in the cases?

Sticky fingers putting the cases on the press?

Cleaning them afterwards?

Sounds like a lot of ongoing effort to me for little reward.

But to each his own. That’s what makes things interesting and I learn from people who do things differently than I do.