I’m thinking of taking a Combative Carbine course from Trident Concepts this year but would like some feedback from anyone here who has been a part of their curricula.
The price sure looks good ($350 for a three day course), and I might do this if my spot on the wait list for the Magpul Dynamic Carbine course doesn’t pan out.
Opinions?
Thanks,
Pat
I’ve taken 3 courses with Trident Concepts. Jeff Gonzales is a top notch instructor. You’ll get your money’s worth and more.
I’ve taken both his handgun and carbine courses. Excellent instructor. Extended range sessions really pushes students to perform. He has demanding accuracy and time requirements. You will definately learn alot. You will also come away with a better understanding of things that you need to work on. Don’t hesitate to take a class from him.
Took two of his specialty handgun classes. The material was good but I didn’t care for the high round counts or the only downtime being when we were loading mags which was also when we were receiving the next block of instruction
I took a carbine class from him and loved it. Jeff is a great instructor.
I took the Advanced Combative Pistol class a few years ago. I would recommend it. There is not doubt that Jeff is an intense instructor who moves right along and pushes. It probably has something to do with his previous job, and how he got it.
I shot around 2800 rounds in three days (not that high round count necessarily means anything). I was fatigued by the end of it. Some people don’t like that, some do. You will get very solid training and techniques, and have lots of opportunity to develop the skills.
I took his Pistol I class and long-distance module 4-5 years ago at Quantico.
Best-suited for folks already squared away. Those that suck will fall behind very quickly.
Stoppage clearance will become automatic after training with Jeff.
I shot a 20LPI 1911, and luckily my hands were sufficiently calloused. If you aren’t already shooting a lot, you may want to consider gloves or bandages for his pistol class. Don’t know about his carbine class. I don’t think he ever came back to Virginia.
Recommended.
Is that price right? $350 total for three days?
Apparently, T.C. has lowered their pricing. A smart move in this economy. $350 for 3 days, anyone who is serious to get out and train would be all over that price.:eek:
Based on just this one post or other information? Have links?
I see a course announcement on Lightfighter at $550 and the TC website still says $600.
Key stroke error, my bad. That should have read that both carbine and pistol classes that are two days are now $350. A really good deal.
Also, I noticed on the T.C. web site, my source, that the one 5 day class on the schedule was also price reduced to $950.
That is trying to bring in business. Good on them.
I took his Combative Pistol class and due to weather we went through about 1100 rounds in a single day that lasted from 8am to 6:30pm. He did an excellent job going over one handed manipulation, however, I often felt that I was “shoveling shit at the backstop” - pulling the trigger without getting any benefit for the shots fired. Some people like high round classes and I see their benefit, if there is instruction taking place too. I learned a lot more in Louis Awerbuck’s class where we fired 550 rounds over three days total than in this class!
I would see if there are other classes available before recommending him. Since I didn’t receive much benefit despite the high number of rounds fired.
Also keep in mind that $350 for a two day class is an ok deal. Most tier one instructors charge about $200/day for classes so it’s only about $25 / day in savings.
re: price, I was operating off the OP
Thanks for all of the replies guys,
My only real hesitation is that I’m #2 on the wait list for the Magpul Dynamics course in November, but the TriCon course is in May. Hell, I’m tempted to do both, but my money also goes to a wife and three kids…
Honestly, the $350 for the TriCon course is very hard to pass up. His class is much closer to me, and I live in the sticks. Being able to go home every night after class makes a difference; free chow and a known roof over my head! Either way, they both sound solid.
Thanks for sharing your experiences,
Pat
I have been a student twice. I would not hesitate to do another class. I will second what Vinh said, you need to have some skills or you will be left behind. The handgun and the Carbine class were not basic classes. Make sure of the following;
A- Have a way to carry lots of mags and ammo to the line (pouches, pockets, or adrop pouch behind the line.
B- make sure you have water with you at the line, a protein bar/ Cliff bar might be needed as well, if you can get distracted between meal breaks.
C- DO NOT SHOOT A 1911A1 with 20 LPI checkering with out gloves, unless you want your hands F***ed up. The checkering will turn them to hamburger. Take moleskin, duct tape or a file to the checkering. I shot after day one with duct tape on my fingers and hands. It was a large roll so when the blood would cause the old tape to fall off I still had plenty more.
D- get with the program and stay with the program. Be prepared to keep up.
Re: the high round counts
They have a place, lots of reps in a short period. I got to the point with the pistol and the carbine where I could tell when the fundamentals were off (stance, tension, presentation, and a feel for a dry/ fubar gun). Jeff’s courses of fire and round count allowed me after years of training to focus on the fundamentals so that they became reflexive. One could argue that these ephinanies may have happened on my own, but I doubt it.
Your money and time will be well spent at a TRICON class.
Regards
Matthew Renz
Jeff also has an excellent book for sale on amazon.
It costs a bit more than most books, but the thing is big and covers just about everything for the pistol and the carbine.
I thought Jeff’s class was excellent, but agree you need to be competent before taking it, even his introductory courses. It was physically and mentally exhausting and there was little downtime, but you get your moneys worth. Knowing that ahead of time, I loaded between 35 and 50 magazines each evening before class and was able to rest during breaks.
My experience was similar to MTR7’s as far as the round count. I had a pretty solid fundamental foundation that became more automatic after that many reps condensed into that period of time.
We had guys (first formal class) that didn’t wear gloves and their hands were also hamburger by the end of the first day. One of my coworkers teased me about my mechanix gloves, at the beginning of TD1. His hands were completely trashed by the end of the day. The beginning of TD2, he wore cycling gloves which dissintigrated by the end of 2. On TD3, he showed up with a set of mechanix gloves. All that to say, if you go, wear goves.
Thanks for the heads up about the book. I’d seen it before, but didn’t know much about it. Stay safe.
For those of you who have attended, what weapon failures did you see with these high round counts?
Mr. Ninja…
Well in the pistol class, I can not recall any ones pistol going down hard, although I must admit I was well in my own little world attempting to get it right and keep the 1911 fed. I did have one GI mag (1980 VINTAGE, OUT OF WRAPPER NEW) craped the bed day one. I did have about six bad rounds (old Winchester white box, when it was good) that failed to feed because they had glue from the box on the case.
All other malfunctions were induced by me, after all I have been that guy twice and do own at least one MOOSE COCK patch. The Kimber TLE 2(internal extractor) had about 8 to 10K through it at that point, sorry no log book on that one. That Kimber runs, and runs and hell it makes me look like I can shoot, no small feat.
Carbine class at QMCB (written up in SWAT):
My 6920 ran fine with wolf military classic ammo and GI mags with Wolf springs and MAG PUL followers. Only problems were operator induced, and not many of those, as I remember a couple of failures to roll the gun over after loading to check bolt status, a couple of failures to seat (one Pat saw and pointed out to Jeff as I recall)
One USMC M 4 carbine went down hard day two, I think the fellows from the WTB who were shooting it said it was a bolt breaking/ cracking.
One Bushmaster T&E piston gun shit the bed day one as I recall. I think the piston came apart, as in chunks of metal. One Bushmaster that belonged to FED type never ran that well as I recall. But one the other hand a local civie ran a Bushie nest to me no problem. One cool guy short gun build had some problems through out the course, can not rember what may have been the root cause.
Hope that helps
Matt
We had no weapon failures at the carbine class of his I attended. This included 5 Shrubmasters, if you can believe that! I still don’t trust them from numerous other failures I’ve seen, but they performed ok with the modifications I had done to them. I had gone over all my guys weapons previously and replaced the BM BCGs with FN BCGs, staked the castle nuts, etc and everyone lubed with slip2000 at the beginning and at lunch of each TD. We had a BCM and several FNs that had been modified to M4 configuration as well. The rest were Colts.
Now that I think about it, one of my guys did have a problem at the end of TD3 with his receiver extension coming loose. I found out he had taken it apart to paint it, and didn’t restake the castle nut when he put it back on.
We had other equipment failures though. 2 of the 3 EOTech 552s on the line shit the bed (battery boxes), one Matech BUIS (that appeared to have been driven from coast to coast being dragged behind a semi) would deploy each time the action was cycled, either manually or while being fired, and the guys using Ultramax ammo had two case head separations. I will have to go back over my notes and see if there was anything else, but that’s all I can recall right now.
FYI, Matech repaired the BUIS for the shooter with problem, inspite of the hard life it had seen. Kudos to them for good support.