55 gr through 69 grain, it refuses to shoot anything in a group less than 1.5" (the best group I ever got out of it). Usually 2-3" with good optics.
For me, That is just not acceptable. Especially given the number of load combinations I have been through.
Trash the barrel and start over with a Noveske before I waste more time and money on trying to tune this thing in? Or does anyone have advice on what to look for.
It does not have a free float barrel. I am sure that would help, but I have other guns w/o free float that shoot 1.25 down to .5" on every 3 shot group.
For what it is worth, I can shoot good groups out of good guns. I have two Rock River’s that make me so proud every time I pull the trigger. A 308 and 223.
Not sure what you are looking for here. It is a cheap barrel and far from match grade. 1.5 inch groups are better than I would expect with the barrel with match grade especially if we are looking at an M4 clone and no free floating. Chrome lined and chrome moly barrels I generally consider to be barrels capable of about 2 inch groups with decent ammo all things being equal. Anything less than that and I feel that I am getting a bonus. I would say be happy and if you want a tact driver than invest money in a rifle/upper that is designed to be a target rifle.
Then what is the average group it is producing and with what ammo/optic? Have you had others shoot it to rule out the shooter? (Sorry, but ruling out variables here.)
I have several Chrome lined barrels as well as a chrome moly on an old beater bushy. Nothing wrong with them, but again they are not designed as precision barrels and if that is what you are expecting then you are going to be disappointed. Depending on ammo I would expect some of my chromed lined BCM barrel to group anything from 1.5 inches with match grade and a good optic, to 4 inches with junk bulk. Also, some barrels just don’t like some ammo. I have a 20 inch stainless steel RRA barrel that is designed as a “match grade” rifle, and while I can stack some loads at 100 meters, it does not like 75gr Steel match throwing it in about 4 inch groups, while the same loading with a 55gr BTHP will hole around MOA. The point being if you are wanting precision get the right tool for the job, chrome lined or chrome moly barrels simply aren’t going to be it.
At what distance are you shooting? As Euro said, that’s a great group size (assuming 100yds/m), although a larger shot count per group would be a better test.
Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. I am expecting too much from this gun. I reload, and I reload a lot. Have tried my pet loads in RR 223 and they don’t work in this gun … or maybe they do work as well as I can expect! Have worked up other loads like I do in all my guns. Nothing shoots worth crap. You would think that eventually something would work out.
I am shooting 55 gr Nosler over 23g TAC and that seems to be about as good as it gets. 2-3" which is disappointing, but then again, I guess my expectations are all out of whack.
All my other AR’s (223, 7.62x39, 308 Win and 300 Blackout) all shoot well with the proper load. But I am pulling my hair out over this one.
I guess I will use it on the range shooting steel and running drills. Use the Rock River 223 for the coyotes and longer range steel shooting and such.
The Rock River 308 shoots like a dream. It does not have a free float barrel. It is a mid length a4 and shoots down to 1/2" usually its around an inch. I put the Magpul MOE front end on it though. Fantastic gun. I can only imagine the accuracy I could get if I put a free float tube on it.
No offense. I see some pretty bad shooting from some people and offer to shoot the gun for them to see if it is the gun or them.
I can take my RR 223 and make some beautiful ragged holes. Damn I love that rifle. My RR 308 is accurate as I could wish for, given the configuration. My 375 H&H is one of the most accurate guns I own second to the 223! That thing impresses me every time I shoot it (which ain’t all that often). Only to test a load or kill an animal. 9/16" -7/8" is very normal for that rifle. Love that gun.
Yes, I am shooting 100 yards with 3x-9x scope with this M4.
I guess I am spoiled. All my AR’s (except maybe the 7.62x39) are great shooters. I just expected more from this barrel. I will wear it out and replace it with a Daniel Defense or Noveske or similar quality. Or, I will just get tired of it and replace it.
Thanks for the insight guys. I guess 2-3" is standard to expect with this kind of barrel?
BTW, I loaded some sinterfire 45 gr frangible and got a 4" group at 100’ (33 yards!) Of course those rounds are for steel at close range but damn! I was surprised how bad they shot! But then again, little need in shooting them much farther than 20 yards away.
All things considered that’s not bad, but I think you already know the answer to your dilemma. Nothing I have seen from AR Stoner is worth buying. Considering the barrel is the most important part of the weapon, I am astounded that people continue to seek everything on the cheap.
I went with Daniel Defense for my 300 build, and will buy that level or higher on all future builds.
I have no use for an inaccurate weapon, AR or bolt gun. If I do my job, I fully expect the weapon to do it’s job. I am the biggest cause of misses. I don’t need any help in missing from my weapon.
For $250 you could get a barrel from Black Hole Weaponry, Seekins or Rainier (just a few I found with a quick scan of vendors I like). Any of those would likely be tons better. Let your current barrel go to someone with lower expectations.
The difference between a 1/2 moa barrel and a 2-3 moa barrel is meaningless if you are shooting cheap ammo or you aren’t shooting from a supported position. Besides, that barrel was never meant to be on a bench gun anyway. If I had bought that barrel and got that level of accuracy from it, I’d be happy and use it for short range shooting until it wore out.
In some circumstances, I agree completely with you. But I have to take into account the purpose of the gun. I made a mistake by going cheap on the barrel. I wanted more than this gun could give. Ok, my bad. I had higher expectations, and I was let down. This barrel has a use, but not in my normal shooting. I think some guys here have made solid recommendations for a replacement barrel.
When the difference is a hit or a miss by the margin of error of the gun, then I gather bad data (hit steel or miss steel, A zone or C/B zone by an inch). I am gauging my shooting ability, trying to get better, if the results I see are inaccurate because of sub-par equipment, then I get poor feedback and loose confidence in either my ability, technique, or equipment.
To me, this is important. It’s why I reload all my ammo, it’s why I test all loads in each gun, I want predictable accuracy so when I miss I know it was me and I don’t have to wonder if it was the gun.
Plus, maybe a friend wins in a friendly V-Tac 9 hole drill because my gun missed by an inch and I had to re-shoot the steel, and I will not be beaten on my own range!
Hmm, looks interesting. Don’t take this the wrong way, but that isn’t very expensive. $70 more than what I paid for my barrel! (That’s good of course). But here we are talking about going cheap on the most important part of the gun, and here is a barrel for $190. I love the idea of spending less, but now I am gun shy (yes, pun intended).
Ok, given the fact that the Stoner barrel I have is expected to be a 2-3 MOA gun, tell me, what is a realistic expectation from a barrel like this with a free float handguard? Given some testing of different loads, different bullets of course. I know not all guns shoot exactly the same. I work up loads for everything. I also know there are a hundred different variables etc. But, given good technique, proper load etc, can you really expect MOA or possibly better with this barrel?
I don’t want to make another mistake and buy a sub-par barrel and then go spend $400 on one that meets my expectations.
I shoot 3-gun and host matches as an IDPA SO. A 2-3 moa rifles is fine for local 3-gun. Targets smaller than 4 moa are rare because the time it takes to hit them is longer than the penalty for missing them after taking a single shot. If you can’t hit the A zone on a target, or a steel, it’s you not the gun. Scored targets are rare past 100 yards anyway because of the reset time between shooters.
Lots of people shoot entry level guns with barrels similar to yours and do very well at 3-gun.
It sounds like you want a barrel with better measurables, which is cool and I’m not trying to argue because it’s your money, but from everything you’ve written it doesn’t seem like your barrel is actually hindering your shooting.
True, the barrel doesn’t hider my shooting and I actually seem to do fine with it on my own range. I guess when I set it on a bench is when it disappoints me. It’s when I try to develop a load that can average 1.5" that it disappoints me.
