I’ve been into every single type of shooting except precision shooting up to this point. I now have an itch that needs to be scratched.
Basically I want an “entry” precision rifle that I can build upon as I progress in this type of shooting.
I was thinking about a rem 700 or savage 110 to start with, in either .308 or .30’06.
Help my out PR forum.
Consider one of Mel’s builds at Sniper Central as an entry:
Howa: http://www.snipercentral.com/scriflepackagedetails.phtml?packageid=1
Remington: http://www.snipercentral.com/scriflepackagedetails.phtml?packageid=2
DTakes, who made that barrel and stock?
I agree that a 22 can be a good trainer. If you decide to go that route, consider the following, among others:
Savage MKII FV-SR
Savage MKII TRR-SR
Savage MKII TR
CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer
I would definitely consider my rigs entry-level, but they shoot well!
Remington 700 Tac in .308, B&C 2958 stock, Tac-Pro cheek riser, Stocky’s steel bottom metal, Timney trigger set to 2.9 lbs., SWFA 10X42 HD scope in Seekins low rings mounted on a Leupold Mk4 steel 15 MOA base, Harris bipod.
Federal 168 Match, 5 shots @ 100 yards;
Savage Mark ll FV with Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9X32 in Leupold PRW rings, Tac-Pro cheek rest;
There are so many ways to go. I would definitely give strong consideration to one of Mel’s starter packages posted earlier.
The general advice is to start with a Rem 700 in .308, maybe a B&C stock, and some decent glass. Go burn out that first barrel learning how to properly shoot. Then, when you send it off for a new barrel install at a good gunsmith, you can swap to a caliber that suits your needs better (if desired, you may find that .308 works just fine for what you do), get the action blueprinted and trued, install any aftermarket whizbangs you want, get a better stock (Manners, McMillan, or one of the chassis systems like AX, XLR, KRG, etc), get better glass, and go have fun.
If you want, start a second rifle using custom actions like Surgeon, Stiller, Defiance, or Badger to meet a different need.
There are, of course, other places to start besides Remington. I started with a Howa because it had a lot of the features I would have wanted installed on the Remington, flat bottom receiver and integrated recoil lug, but there aren’t many people who work on them. Tikka is a decent starting place as well.
In any case, the rules are the same. Burn out that first barrel learning the rifle, and then start with the whizbangs.
Focus your money on the OPTICS, not the rifle. Trust me on this. If you can get something that has good glass, milliradian knobs/milliradian reticle, and is First Focal Plane (FFP). You’re going to be a lot happier with the rig in the long run, especially once you start developing a decent grasp on the fundamentals and begin pushing the envelope of yourself and the rifle.
DO NOT buy a $1500 rifle and slap a $300 scope on it. You will regret it quickly. My first civilian precision bolt gun was a .308 Remmy SPS Tactical, topped with a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50. $500 rifle with a $1800 scope on it. The rifle did everything I asked of it, including .5 MOA groups with Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr loads at 100 yards. The only thing that is not too hot with the SPS is the Hogue stock. It will flex a lot when you properly load the bipod. If I were to do it all over again I would stick to the same rifle, but get a Vortex Viper PST, and some decent ring and base (Badger, Seekins, LaRue, EGW, Nightforce).
Don’t forget about the other support items you will need to get started. At a minimum; the proper tools to install your scope and rings (read torque wrench), a Harris BRM-S bipod, Midway shooting mat, a rear bag, Kestrel anemometer, binos or better a spotting scope, match grade ammo, and Dewey coated cleaning rod and proper jigs/brushes with the necessary high end cleaning supplies.
Things you’ll probably want to start saving to upgrade are the trigger (Timney, Jewell), stock (Manners, McMillen, AICS), bottom metal (Badger or Manners), and eventually barrel (too many to list).
Precision shooting is not cheap.
I would agree on the 22lr trainer idea. You can accomplish everything for a fraction of the price.
Pro’s
1 They will not buck the wind like a big round. This teaches you how to make wind calls
2 They don’t shoot very far. Teaches dialing in your elevation
3 Shooting @ 0-300 yards will make you use a kestral, rangefinder, ballistic program. Buy good the first time, you will use these for years.
4 buy a good scope, a viper pst is an excellent investment. buy once, cry once. These have very good resale value.
5 It’s a fraction of the cost = more savings for that first custom rifle your dreaming of.
Now this is what I did:
I bought a Custom rifle 338 Lapua Mag; Stiller TAC 338 action, XLR chassis.
I have bought micro dies, bullets, brass(Lapua), powder, case trimmer(Giraud), factory ammo($118/20), spotting scope, terrapin range finder, primers, mags, boretech cleaning rods etc, and new rings. To all this and I need a bigger scope. The 3.5*15 NF is not enough.
Just to give you a ball park figure, all that’s over 8K. I try not to think about it much atm. I got a good deal on the rifle for it being left hand action, but look at what I have spent this month and still need more stuff.
I highly recommend getting a 22lr and slapping a PST on her and shooting until you learn how to make a long shot every time. I do not believe you said anything about if you reloaded or not ??? It will end up being a MUST at some point. While you are shooting your 22, you can read up and see how to reload to make your big rifle shoot better. Most of the guys around here get a 6x47 lapua and drive it out to 1k or more. The guy that owns the guns hop here has a target with five hits on it at 1k the size of a half dollar. They shoot what they build.
All this can be done for less than 2k dollars, so if you decide you do not like it, sell your support equipment and move on for a far more cheaper price. Shooting long range is not for the timid.
I would recommend a remington 700 tactical in .308. For under $600 you can’t beat it for an entry level gun.
Would it be possible/desirable to set up something like that 10/22in a Savage Bolt gun chambered in 17 hmr?
Yes you can, and easily.
Tikka Blows rems out of the water and they are even cheaper.
700’s are defective from the factory, made by idiots and if not for the plortha of smiths who made their living fixing them… wouldn’t even be in the conversation of the best actions.
Just about any major action out there, is better than a 700. FN/Winchester, Tikka/Sako , Howa, ect.
Ouch. I’m leaving this post alone but I am not so sure that the 700 action is so bad that any action produced is better.
As a stock action it is. Even worked up, alot of shit has to be done to make it reliable and acceptable.
Want to guess why about 15 companies can’t make 700 clone actions fast enough?
The whole precision market is ****ing retarded. Its a endles cycle of stupidity.
I wanted to second the Savage as an entry level precision rifle…such as this Model 12 F/TR in .223. With a 1/7 twist it’s a good shooter with 80gr Bergers and Sierra MKs.
I shoot a similar Savage in 6BR in med to 600yd range matches, although my 6BR does have an aftermarket trigger and a Shilen barrel.
Just a thought…
So why are there so many 700 clones and no Tikka, Howa, etc clones? There are many shooters who would greatly disagree. don’t let the fanboy side of you liking your personal rifle make you look bad.
1911 pattern pistols must suck too because of all the clones and gunsmiths who have made a living fixing them as well…
I would say that budget and intended use would be important info to know. how much range do you have access to regularly?
a basic factory “tactical” .308 and a fixed 10 power scope has done great for many. I prefer adjustable magnifications scopes as they offer me the ability to go low power for hunting and high powered for targets at distance.
Ive had both Remington 700s and a Savage 10 model 308 and liked them. all were able to hold groups less than an inch.
Currently I am in the process of building a custom rifle in 30-06. looking at the ballistics of it when loaded with modern powders and bullets and the 'ole '06 will get up into the 300 win mag territory - 190gr at 2900fps has been safely done which mimicks the Federal Gold Medal Match 300 WM load. I will be building a M24 clone, basically, in 30-06 and will be reloading 3 different loads, a slightly reduced M1 Garand safe load with a 165gr NBT hunting bullet, a M118LR load to mimick the .308 loads im familiar with, and the 190gr Long Range load as well.
reloading will go a long way to maximizing the accuracy of your particular rifle.
Or, you know, it could be like AR-15s. The basic design has been around for so long and the rifle has become so ubiquitous that it makes good business sense to make an action that will accept all those aftermarket parts.
At a certain point, though, you have to ask yourself what the cost/benefit is. You can buy a standard R700 SPS action, and then send it off to a smith along with $700 or so. For that, you can get the action trued, a side bolt release, maybe a one piece bolt and handle, and a better recoil lug. Add a quality non-jellyfish stock and you now have a great rifle for around $1500.
Out of the box, Howa has a flat bottom for easy bedding, giant integrated recoil lug, side bolt release, one piece bolt/handle, good two stage trigger, and has a reputation for being pretty damn true from the factory. It costs the same as the SPS, just add a better stock and go.
Tikka comes out of the same factory as Sako, has probably the slickest action of anyone, a 60 degree throw, awesome trigger, and also has a reputation for being very true from the factory.
There are others out there as well like FN and Steyr, but they are in a higher price bracket.
The only reason to go for the R700 for a first bolt gun is that there are so many people who work on them and accessories out there that the rifle can grow along with your shooting style. Like the AR, there is a part to do just about anything you like.
But, IMO, most serious shooters will probably end up going straight for the custom actions and not bother with picking up doner actions just to send off to a smith to have brought up to standard. With that in mind, if you don’t mind the lack of variety in parts out there, there is nothing wrong with starting with something other than Remington.
Exactly!
Sometime, about 30 years ago, smiths decided to start working on the 700 action.
Durring the Vietnam war, there was no offical sniper program, and some programs were started up to give them that capability. At the time, They used off the shelf Win 70’s, Rem 700’s and a few others.
I have no idea why the 700 got the nod, as the 70 IMO is a superior design and action, but it did.
Maybe the smiths of the day saw how much they could make? Maybe there was a time when remingtons weren’t made as cheap, fast and poorly as possible?
Either way, you can see how many smiths made their bones from rems and what do you think they taught their apprentices? The military picked up the action and the rest is history.
Most smiths are lazy and are only willing to do what they KNOW they can do. Like anything, people go for the easy money. Rem will also sell bare actions which many other companies will not, so material cost is cheaper. It may be harder to work on some of the other actions, but it is worth it. Even after u have all that smith work done to your 700, there are still inherient flaws like bolt lift/ect.
If we lived in a world full of logic and reason, your base would be a 70 or tikka. They would most likley NOT need to be trued and would need minimal machining work. They industry does not make money from factory rifles that are all ready shooters.
Hell, take a factory Tikka T3 in .308 and a Trued 700 and you woudlnt know the different. Too bad Berreta does not import a heavy barreled 6.5CM/.260 anymore, or there wouldn’t be a need to even send it to a smith, except to rebarrel it after its shot out.