What does anyone have to say about them?
Expensive and if money were not an issue, I would buy one for my SCAR in a heartbeat.
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I have one issued to me and I dislike it. The POI shift between 1X and 4X is about 3" at 25m. There are at least two others on my team that had the same problem right out of the box. The other problem is weight. they weigh 24 oz and are pretty tall. You can definitely feel it making your carbine top-heavy. The SCAR has a pretty tall receiver so the problem is even worse there.
On the bright side the BDC is nice and the illumination is pretty effective. They’re pretty rugged. That said I wouldn’t even consider buying on out of pocket. For the price you’re getting into short dot territory.
It would seem some units have a greater POI shift than others.
Here is mine at 25 yards -
What do you mean short dot?
The thing I like about the Elcan is being able to scan a sector in 1X, acquire a target, flip to 4x with out coming off target and firing. It is a heavy optic though. The same company also has come out with a 1.5x to 6x.
S&B … 1-4 One of the best made.
Have you used this technique with a SpectreDR or is this theoretical? I’m not trying to be condescending, I just haven’t seen a multipower optic used that way. The way I’ve been trained, I scan on 1X with my eyeball and transition to an optic or sights to make a shot regardless of what power it happens to be. The time I would switch the power would be if I’m expecting a long or short distance shot ie keep it on 4x when patrolling in the open, switch to 1X in and around compounds. Scanning through an optic at 1X and then switching to 4X to make a shot seems like it would be slow. If you can see it at 1X why not just engage it?
No this is after talking to a couple of Soldier who had them on a C.O.P.
This is what they said. I personaly do not have one. Have been thinking about them though. A little bet expensive though.
Why do you say that…
I’m not here to sharp shoot anyone, Just trying to get some information on the system.
I’m fairly certain this topic has been covered ad nausem. I would do a SEARCH function.
Here’s my take on the Elcan DR et al.
A know a lot of SOF guys who like them.
I also know alot of SOF guys who do not.
I have owned one, not sure which evo it was. My RET was amber which my eyes & brain do not prefer in most terra firma diurnal engagements. I would prefer RED which it is now.
The main issues have been the Zero shift & the ARMS mount.
There have been a number of units, elements, TEAMs who have procurred them and when implementing the optics (read Zeroing) several of them literally falling off the weapon from recoil impulse etc. & ZERO shift that turned a lot of people off.
Understandably so in any Danger Close / In Extremis situation etc. ;-/
That reality has been difficult to overcome. Having said that, some people contend that the levers were not adjusted correctly. Some feel it is an inherent design flaw etc. Some people don’t care for the owner or his business ethics etc.
I’m ONLY disseminating info I have and not making judgment regarding this.
As D90King says the S&B Short DOT is/was the shizzle.
Do a search function and it will ellucidate itself to you as D90King alludes to.
There are a number of new variable power optics (i.e. 1X6 1X8 et al) that would probably be more efficacious in your endeavor. Again research, read, assimilate data & process it.
The concept of flipping the optic for optimal shot placement once threat is aquired is no doubt ideal. But the reality of having your optic fall off or shift in POA/POI is a bigger conceptual issue in my eyes…
Here’s a fairly decent link to a test addressing POA/POI, ZERO shift change specifically.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1806056
Overall, to me if Elcan can eliminate (or has) those concerns I think it’s a potentially good optic. Weight is a moot point in my eyes since any decent varaiable is going to weigh more due to glass elements and glass quality anyways.
Hope that helps answer your question.
YMMV…
My buddy on SF has one issued, as does his team and he says they love them. They are not experiencing the zero shift at all. He said they have engaged targets out to 600M with them. I just picked one up also. I am going to the range today and plan on comparing it to my NF 1-4. So, far just a comparison at the house I can tell you a few things. The NF glass is not even close to being as clear the Elcan. Mine is the 1-4 elcan. The NF illumination is NOT visible in full sunlight, where the Elcan is. The NF does have a more forgiving eye relief. The Elcan, you need to be very close to it to get the proper picture. The Elcan can illuminate just a red dot or the full reticule, which is a nice feature. The field of view is slightly better on the Elcan at 4 power. I will provide more after some range results. Oh, and by the way my buddy said he has never had a team member break an Elcan. It is heavy, but I am not sure what the NF plus the mount weighs. My guess is it is close.
FWIW if you put a cat tail on a variable like a Short-Dot they are very quick to change magnification, and if you have the front of the gun supported could easily do it keeping your finger on/near the trigger, and use your left to change magnification. Also the lever allows a quick reference as to what power its set to. 3 o’clock is 1.1X and 6 o’clock is 4X. Everyone who has tried mine setup this way wanted to know where to get one, and couldn’t believe how easy it was.
The 3 gunners developed them for quick magnification changes on the fly during competitions, and they work very nicely.
I looked at the Elcan, and think its an excellent idea but the (possible) zero shift, and crappy mount turned me off. Ive had issues with ARM’s mounts, and they have one of the worst reputations as far as mounts go. No way Id pay that much money for an optic where that was my only choice.
The weight isn’t that far off from an ACOG once you include the weight of a mount.
Really? If a TA31 is about 10oz without a mount, and if the mount weighs two or three ounces that still makes the SpectreDR about a pound heavier.
I weighed the two of them when I got my Elcan and I can’t remember what the difference was.
I saw people getting the weights of the Elcan and the ACOG off their respective sites and were comparing the two but did not realize the weight figure on Trijicon’s site was for just the optic and did not include the mount.
Been using 1 in Afganland now for about 3 months with no shift in poi between the x1 and x4. Honestly I think it is a pretty solid optic other than the risk of using ARMs mounts. Personaly I have always been a EOtech guy, but as 90% of our engagments take place at past 250m it makes sense to have a magnifier.
I’m a civilian and have had a Specter DR a year mounted to Noveske middy.
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It is heavy (24oz) and the ARMS mounts do suck. I have had to shim the mount system to keep it tight. It seems fine now.
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It is expensive, but I got a very good deal on a NIB one last year - model was the latest rev as of spring 2009. I lucked out there.
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The glass is very good - seems better than ACOG.
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Eye relief is OK for those who practice nose-to-CH shooting and the FOV is quite generous on 1X
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The BDC reticle is spot on so far up to 300 yards. I want to shoot it further and see if it holds true to 600 with heavier bullets.
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The illumination options are great and my battery has lasted 1 year so far - kept on a lower illumination setting 24/7.
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The zero does not wobble on mine, the elevation wheel lock works well.
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I haven’t looked for POI shift from 1X to 4X to closely because at closer ranges say out to 50 yards on 1X and 6MOA center dot I can hit whatever I need to hit. When I switch to 4X and shoot center dot or BDC it still hits. As such I have not noticed it to be an issue. Remember, this is a second focal plane reticle so I don’t think the BDC retice will work properly on 1X - it is designed to work at 4X.
Did you zero the optic at 100 yrds in 4X?
Yes sir, I did.