I’d appreciate if someone could tell me when the age of white light came to pass in the US military. With that said, I feel the need to illum my tgt area in a home defense sit, and without reservation, am not afraid to ask for a bit of advice tech wise. The very thought of white light in a tactical environment scares the Bee-Jesus outta me. You flash white lum my way and you are taking rounds. Is red, et al completely unheard of these days? White light has advantages, but the disadvantages are everybit the equal. I know all about the concept of “dazzling” or “blinding” your intended…what does one call a drunk wife beater or crack dealer these days…arrestee? Anyhoo, I’m not looking for DA/LEO approval. Musn’t be politically incorrect, lol. OK, off the soap box. The bottom line is, I can’t wrap my sluggish, old Ranger Handbook brain around white light from me, myself, and I, while possibly putting myself in a position to take fire from said emissions. I know the newbs do it as a matter of course. Perhaps I’m being a bit old fashioned…but then again, I think the SAW is a POS without peer, and nothing makes a man like humping a ruck and doing SOCOM evals non-stop for a week. Is red light and tritium dead? Am I missing the point? Is bright lum for prisoners, and I’m just stuck in the late 80’s, early 90’s, where it’s just dbl tap, ACE report, and FRAGO on?
I use the light mounted on my duty gun to see where im going when I enter a dark place. The same reason I carry a flashlight. If a turd is going to shoot at you, he’s gonna shoot whether you have a light or not. Hopefully I’ll have the advantage and be quicker on the trigger.
I see… I apologize as I thought that is what rehearsals, NVGs, and speed and aggressive use of force was for. What I am asking is what can be used to illum the target area short of WP or a light saber, in a “professionals” opinion, that won’t draw fire. Cuz, you come at me with your “see where your going” bullet magnet fired up, and you will have more rounds in you than on you. Thanks.
Most weapon lights will be bright enough to momentarily blind any bad guys you may come across. You also don’t want to leave your light on any longer than you have to. There are techniques such as “strobing” that you can use to make your way through a dark, unfamiliar area without making yourself a total sitting duck. Just make sure you’re schooled up on how to properly employ your weapon light and you won’t have anything to worry about.
Oh, and you can get red lens covers for them, too.
A weapon light needs to be bright. If you are just chillin’ at camp, there is a need for light discipline. They are two different scenarios. When the shooting starts, light discipline is moot, as everybody knows exactly what’s happening and where. Are you “Educated” now?
Yes, but what happens when you can’t use your NVG’s, or when using them is impractical (they crapped out… there is a lot of artificial illumination in the area… it’s daytime and you’re going in and out of dark spaces… etc.) ?
What happens, is you use your light properly and drive on.
Also, nothing anywhere saying you can’t use a dim little LED light for navigation. Some weaponn lights have them built in in various colors.
NVGs suck, Period. CQB makes them moot too. Perhaps you are working with the wrong tools? At ranges close enough, NVGs, or atleast as they were issued to me, are 1.25 magnification. This makes it difficult to manuever in tight spaces where a simple bright light would be preferable. They also suck when you are in Blackout Mode and come across opposing traffic with their head lights on.
Well now, I see… If your NODs take a shite, due to white out, flash or, or what not, use your big bright white light… Correct? Of course if that is the case, the it’s in effect…right? Light discipline means nothing. Nor do your NODs. After thinking, I realized this was a silly question to ask, especiallly after trying to stress rehearsals, walk through/talk throughs, etc… Do forgive. What I should of asked asked was, is red light, or the various hues of the rainbow, practical at illuminating transgressors in ones PB, without being a bullet mag. For all of you who answered anything relating to your “duty” weapon, or how I’m a dumkopf, don’t know how to use my “light” properly, I submit, that your use of a light, short of a PC extract, or hard target takedown, will get you killed. Period. Been there done that, and I’m not selling a tactical school/program to lie to you or fleece you. I was not, nor ever will be SFOD/D, but then I also want folks to survive. If you have no experience putting rounds into folks who wish you kaput, sans superior numbers and illiumination technology, save it…
Ahhhh… Geminidglocker has gotten somewhere… Help me out bro-heem, NODs white out, dark as shite, unfamiliar environment, mission is scrubbed, short of FRAGOed to hell, what can wel use that will not, in reasonable use’ draw all the damn 7.62x39 we can stomach? You think white light? Light up the field? Maybe we need to focus more on tritium front sight posts, as I think rears are wasted with proper cheek weld? Quit ignoring the reality of light works both ways. Opinions? Imagine no damn optics. Would red light work for POW/SEARCH? Bro, you start firing up the surelights, and you will, will, eventually draw fire. I’m speaking in a defensive op. What do you think will target breachers without giving ones position away time after time?
Check out this AAR, it makes for a decent read:
There is a time for Defense, and a time for Offense, the scenario dictates which method should be applied. I can recall a few occasions where I had to call for Illumination, delivered promptly by our Paladins. I met some Marines once on a convoy that said, “If we have contact, we’ll pop a purple smoke.” I was always keen to pop a Green flare from the 203. Our Convoy was uneventful til’ we hit an IED. Luckily it was a GIED, a gay ied that did’nt accomplish its intended mission.
Trying to read these posts made my brain hurt, is that some sort of mil-speak?
me too…i stopped reading after the first few sentences.
Troll speak…
Those who know what he wrote can best answer his questions. 
We still use white light on our carbines for entering and clearing houses / searching / warning cars / ect. Whatever the mission dictates.
Obviously you wouldn’t use it when using NVGs, but before I get into that house my NVGs go up, anyway.
Red light is still used for reading maps when the situation calls for total darkness. And tritium is still used in our compasses, if that’s what you’re asking.
Blue lights are still used inside the vehicle while rolling in sector.
The age of the white light has not came to pass.
As for ACE reports and FRAGOs… that’s not old fashioned at all, that’s just the military. I have no idea what you’re talking about the Ranger Handbook being ‘old school’ as it’s often revised and updated.
I may be able to translate for you, but I don’t know if it would matter. I think his mind was made up before he even started this thread.
Red light is good for reducing loss of night vision, but at the intensities needed to positively ID or locate a threat it really doesn’t matter what color you are pushing, and since we work better in full color, we might as well use it. Color does nothing to prevent detection (well, really, blue/purple is the least obvious, but it’s still pretty easy to detect at night), at least not at usable levels of light.
Tritium is great, but has pretty much been eclipsed by RDSs on rifles.
Am I missing the point?
Actually, yes. I think you are missing the point and if you really want to understand the subject I highly recommend that you take a class on night fighting, because it is pretty obvious that you don’t know what you don’t know.
Touche’. I apologize to all. White light was a no no stressed upon me years ago. It was used specifically, not arbitrarily. Obviously that still applies, but I started off rather assholish, and found fault instead of learning. Add a few brews and it was a recipe for disaster. I know how to fight at night, sans white lights beaming. With that said, I will shut the hell up and listen to how white light is used effectively today, without compromising oneself. Out.
Possession of a flashlight is not justification for the use of lethal force, just fyi. Using white light (alone) as a target discriminator in a home defense situation is probably not the brightest idea, excuse the pun.
The other thing folks seem to forget when arguing the “shoot the light” approach is that if someone is a real threat and has white light on you, you’re probably taking rounds, too.