I’ve been looking pretty hard at this gun. I like all the accessories it comes with. Does anyone have one or have any insight on it?
That package DPMS ripped off of Rock River Arms “Government” model based on what was speced for the DEA contract they got years ago. I will say this about DPMS: they are a “sometimes/maybe” rifle manufacture. Sometimes/maybe you end up with one of their rifles that is totally reliable, runs flawlessly, and you are completely content with it. However, more times then not, you will have issues with it from substandard parts, non-spec chambers, to failure to properly QC the weapon before it leaves the factory.
Staring with the rifle, I would look at a number of reputable manufactures. Daniel Defense, LMT, BCM, Noveske, Colt are all top weapons with very few issues due to the use of high quality parts and stringent QC. For $ sake, DD and LMT are going to give you the best go. Those 2 companies comprise about 95% of the components for the many AR’s I have built that are in my safe.
In regards to the accessories that come with that package, there are updated versions that are more worth while. A Daniel Defense Omega rail is probably the best drop-in rail system on the market. Surefire has come out with much smaller, brighter, and lighter illumination systems then the M951 series (the M600 Scout lights and X300’s jump to mind). Lastly there are much better choices in a rear sight then the DPMS Magonel. For fixed, I would take Daniel Defense, while folding my choice would be Troy Industries followed by the Magpul MBUS if you’re trying to stretch the penny.
As far as optics, I have used Eotech and Aimpooint extensively. I feel slightly faster and able to shoot tighter groups with the Eotech, however the Aimpoint offers more in the ruggedness and ability to take abuse department. I would take the Aimpoint optics (T-1, M3, or M4) for a general purpose carbine or a patrol rifle because of the extreme battery life and the ability to leave the optic on so it is always ready to go. Eotech is more of a direct action optic used for specific missions in which it excels beyond anything else in its class. I use the 552 and the new XPS with absolutly no issues. The 552 I’ve put a lot of rounds down with without a hiccup, and with lithium AA batteries, the runtime is extended.
Hope this helps!
ive got two of those sometimes rifles.
I would steer clear of DPMS personally. There are plenty of other alternatives that are cheaper. I can build a carbine for around 1500.00 that will outrun the DPMS any day of the week.
$2069.00? Egad. :rolleyes: For that money, you could a similar package with a high quality base gun and optic.
Example: Colt 6940 (~$1359.00), Comp ML3 2MOA w/ LT mount (~$569.00), and a G2 LED w/ TNVC or Malkoff on a VTAC (~$125). Total: $2053.00
You could adjust some components to keep the SF M951, or add a decent 2-stage trigger, or go to a T1 or M4S optic, or combinations thereof.
Start with a good foundation - good brand rifle, mostly good barrel and BCG, then go from there.
It’s better to skimp on accessories (rail, optic if you co-witness) then on the rifle, or just save up for the good stuff.
Let’s examnine what you get:
16"
• 4140 Chrome-moly steel CRAP! No mention if it is HPT/MPI
• Manganese phosphated
• 6 groove, right-handed 1x9 twist, button rifled [b]CRAP]/b]
• A2 Flash hider (birdcage)
Chamber:
• 5.56 x 45mm Maybe, Maybe not
Method of Operation:
• Gas operated rotating bolt
Bolt & Carrier:
• Chrome plated 8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec. NO need for a chome plated carrier
• Phosphated steel bolt, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec. No mention of the bolt steel, or if it is HPT/MPI
Sights:
• Standard A2 front sight assembly, DPMS flip-up rear CRAP
Upper Receiver:
• Forged 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
• Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
• A3 Flattop, no handle included. Ready for optics. Handle available seperately.
• Dust cover
• Shell deflector
• Round forward assist
• Right hand ejection
Lower Receiver:
• Forged 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
• Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
• Semi-auto trigger group CRAP! Stuck with DPMS’s LPK
• Aluminum trigger guard
• Magazine release button
Stock: • Telescoping fiber reinforced polymer, fully functional CRAP! Commercial RE
Handguards:
•Surefire Quadrail™ No one uses these any more (as there are much better choices)
Special Features: EoTech 552 Holographic sight, Surefire Quadrail with Weapons Mounted Light and spare bulb, tactical latch, Ergo grip Pass on the 552 (better EOTech’s available); the SF weaponlight is old out dated technology and WAY too heavy and we have seen the Ergo grips break (so pass on that as well)
Ok, so it looks like a really subpar rifle for $2k.
C4
Don’t forget the well knwon and widely used DPMS Pardus stock!
I would never trust a DPMS rifle for anything serious. Range rifle only. Out of spec parts, bolt catches breaking, pins breaking, crap LPK,s.
Our agency has some DPMS’s in our inventory, we are in MN about 1 hour away from the plant (if you can call it that) so the local rep won over our previous admin. We also have some surplus Colt A1s that were converted to carbines. Out of all of our rifles we have only had problems with the DPMS’s. We have had broken gas rings with in about 1000 rounds, uppers so tight you needed a pin and punch, and some broken parts in the lower.
When we sent the rifles back that you were not able to field strip in the field, tight fiting, I mean really tight they told me, “well you want them tight for accuracy.” I replied that I wanted to be able to field strip it in the field to lube, clean, etc. He tried to take them apart and had to go in back to use tools. They had the gunsmith fix them by mearly grinding the hole in the upper receiving for the take down pin, mmm I guess thats one way.
Stay far, far away from anything DPMS, my first rifle is a DPMS which I will kep more so for sentimental reasons as it was the first rifle I built, it runs fine but probably due to the fact my mentor taught me to assemble it properly with better parts. Their “plant” is just a large hanger with a bunch of assemblers. I did not see much manufacturing of any parts etc, I’m guessing they do but probably out source it or import crap parts. I am trying to get our PD away from them but in the mean time we are stuck with them. 
Dave
Beware of pinstripes and under-coating.
You start zeroing in on things that don’t matter.
First off, Welcome to the forum!
Like others have stated, don’t buy the rifle because of what accessories come with it. Take any comments (good and bad) with a grain of salt. While many people will complain about a particular manufacturer chances are that in reality the complainer has little to no experience with the manufacturer nor the particular rifle being questioned. They simply re-post other peoples problems, concerns, “hear says”, and opinions. Any and ALL manufacturer’s rifles have the potential to prematurely wear out and/or fail. What matters most is that:
- You are competent enough to take apart your rifle and inspect it periodically for any anomalies (With the advent of the internet this should not be a problem with all of the resources available) and
- What kind of warranty/reputation the manufacturer has for fixing/repairing their products and the customer service to back it up
I have owned several DPMS Rifles. The only problem I ever had with one was with a Factory Built SBR (Kitty Kat) that I purchased from them. The rifle came in an A2 configuration and ran flawlessly! Me however wanted the ability to have an A3/A4 (Basically a Flattop) Upper. Upon changing the upper, getting rid of the FSB and going to a low profile gas block and carbine length FF Rails caused the rifle to hiccup to the point of failure. What would happen was that upon firing a round, occasionally the primer from a spent casing would be “blown out” of the primer pocket and end up in the FCG completely rendering the rifle as useless. I had all kinds of expert advice and theory’s of failure given to me, but none of them made any change in performance of the rifle. I swallowed my pride and contacted DPMS and told them about the rifle and they emailed me a pre-paid UPS shipping label and went through the rifle and found nothing but a spent primer in the lower receiver/FCG. They sent the rifle back to me with no incurred S&H charges. Was the rifle fixed, no. However DPMS could not get the rifle to fail for them and could not find anything wrong with it. FWIW, the problem was resolved upon installing a F/A Carrier, Heavy Buffer & Spring, and beefing up the extractor. However the point I was trying to make was that even though i purchased this rifle new from DPMS and changed the configuration (and started having problems only when I changed the configuration), they still were more than willing to stand behind their product and made sure I incurred no expenses in the process.
My best advice would be to contact somebody like Rob S (member of this forum/Tactical Yellow Visor Dude) or any other Industry Professional, Subject Matter Expert, or Moderator and talk to him about your situation and wants versus needs - meaning are you buying this rifle for work or play. I feel he will give you the most honest, non-biased opinion based on factual research and not hear say.
I do agree with the consensus of the price being a bit steep. I know for a fact you could find this exact rifle for less than $1900 plus S&H. However still at that price I believe you can assemble a package that would satisfy you more than this rifle would. Mangonel Sights? IDK either. Never used one but they just look awkward to me.
Good Luck and Welcome Aboard!
One of the differences between this site and several others is that we don’t support hearsay.
If someone, especially a moderator, Industry Professional, or SME (subject matter expert) posts something, you can be sure it’s not hearsay unless we present it as such up front.
DPMS has a terrible reputation here and for good reason. I’ve personally seen several break bolts, have shoddy construction, and have all manner of issues.
There are so many better choices.
DPMS, Rock River, and Bushmaster are masters of marketing, but not so much when it comes to actually building a rifle.
$2,000+ (or even $1,900) is ridiculous for ANY DPMS.
Take a look at “The Chart” (by rob_s) and you’ll see that there’s a lot that DPMS doesn’t do/skimps out on compared to the other brands (the farther right on the chart a rifle is, the lesser quality it is, and DPMS is the farthest right).
Consider that you can get a BCM, Colt, or Noveske for LESS than the $2,000 that the DPMS would cost, in addition to optics, grips, etc., and you’ll see it just doesn’t make sense.
Get a quality weapon and save yourself money, time, and the embarrassment of finding out just how bad DPMS rifles can be.
For a $2000 budget, you can get a top of the line rifle with optic.
Not promoting any “hearsay” about DPMS, simply stating my experiences from working retail sales, range duty, instruction, and working in purchasing for a major retailor fo firearms. DPMS has at best spotty quality, garnered from the amount of rifles I have had to send back, or have seen break during usage.
2-3 years ago, at least you could talk to a real person that could rectify your situation immediately when you called them. Lately, their CS has gone way down. I had orders that I cancelled still shipped even when I had “confirmation” from them it was cancelled. Then they wanted to charge us for return shipping due to their mistake. Don’t get me started on the non-returned phone calls or e-mails eiether…
Oppose that with companies like LMT and DD, whose CS is of the charts and the reps are always willing to go the extra mile for the customer and reatailors alike. Plus their products are head and shoulders above companies like DPMS.
I am one of the very satisfied owner of DPMS rifles and have been for many years. I don’t intend to spend thousands of dollars for any AR since mine and others in my family work just great. Mine is a SS bull barrel 20" and is my coyote and prairie dog rifle and it works just great…
I appreciate all the replies everyone. So basically stay away from the DPMS as a base rifle is the consensus. As far as the surefire rail, i’ve seen great reviews and it looks really good. I’m not mounting optics or anything on it so it it doesn’t allow repeat zero I don’t really care. What about putting the accessories from the agency or some others mentioned on a Bushmaster M4A3. People seem to not like the Bushies either for some reason.
Your experience is common.
A number of agencies proximate to DPMS either don’t use them, or can’t wait to get rid of them. You would think there’d be more enthusiasm for a local business, and better support from it for the home team.
Some agencies have declined FREE guns from them. That’s really something. The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops.
Your example is helpful in illustrating the point. The DPMS is a hobby/rec gun, and will mostly meet the expectations of those in those pursuits. It’s when you ask more of them that you’ll have issues.
There are better weapons available than Bushmaster or DPMS. It might be worth saving a little while longer to get a higher quality firearm. That way, you aren’t paying extra to go through and upgrade everything down the road.
Another option is to buy your AR15 in parts. Go with a lower, then an upper down the road. You can buy the best components you can afford, as you can afford them.