Does your gun "collection" make sense?

General General Discussion
1

Preface: I have been a gun owner for less than two years. Since I don’t have any friends that own guns, I have to look to the internet for advice/information I may be seeking. While this question may seem stupid, bear with me.

Over the past 22 months, I have bought six guns; four pistols and two rifles. At this time, when I sit back and look at my “collection”, it doesn’t make sense. That is to say, my “collection” as a whole seems random; the collective isn’t easily defined. While any gun can be used in a offensive or defensive manner, it seems as if my choices in firearms work against one another; different manufactures, ergonomics, differences in actions, etc.

As a civilian, my firearms needs are different than those of military and law enforcement personnel. Having many different guns, its proving to be difficult getting enough trigger time on any one platform to become proficient with it. As I think about future purchases I would like to make, the likelihood of this problem increasing is high. I understand the practicality of standardizing on one platform but again, that is proving to be difficult. Since I don’t know anyone with guns, I have to rely solely on the feel of the gun in hand and reports from users on this forum and others like it. I feel this in part has led to semi-erratic purchases which I feel don’t work together to fit one common need, defense.

My “needs” as a civilian:

*this is a snapshot in time as I plan to add firearms to replace some in their current role.

Home defense: Pistol; Sig Sauer
Concealed Carry: Pistol; Springfield, Smith and Wesson
Main Firearms for SHTF (hate using that term): AR, Sig Sauer

While I didn’t list the models of said firearms, trust when I say they are “different”.

Here are the questions I have for the members here:

  1. List your “needs” as you see them. (home defense, concealed carry, etc.)
  2. What firearms fill those roles?
  3. What thought process if any do you employ before adding a firearm to your “need” column.

Instead of creating another thread with this question:

I am trying to minimize the calibers I have to stock so most of my pistols are 9mm. I also plan some .45 cal. pistols but I haven’t gotten there yet.

  1. Assuming you don’t hate any caliber, how do you decide which caliber to purchase for each gun? (seems like a stupid question but I don’t feel like typing out an entire new thread to explain fully, ha)

Perhaps I am over thinking this entire gun purchasing ordeal but I want to get it right the first time.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance and again, bear with me.

2

My advice is to stop spending money on “collections” and start spending money on training. Since you are fairly new to shooting, money spent with TigerSwan would be the best investment you will ever make.

Based on the fact that you have different pistols for home defense and CCW, though; you probably won’t listen.

M_P

3

Thanks for being a dick. And no, I don’t disagree with you.

4

If you want to “collect” guns… more power to ya.

If you want to become proficient with “a” gun, Modern Pirate is spot on. Training wins the day.

Now, that being said, I do have some guns that are part of my “collection” fetish. I have everything from .25auto to .45auto and LC. Why? Some were passed down to me, so they stay in the collection, never to be sold. Some were for Cowboy action shooting (a game basically) and it’s a blast, even the wife got involved. Some were impulse buys when I had more money than I knew what to do with at the time. Some were purchases of a nostalgic nature… I love WWII weapons. Some were just a damn good deal that I thought I might flip someday for a profit and found out I like 'em.

When it comes to the guns I train and shoot with for fun and for the unlikely event I might need to defend myself… I have two nearly identical pistols in case one breaks down. I have three AR15’s with different barrel lengths for whatever fits my fancy. The professional training aspect is new to me as I’ve only been to a few classes and plan on attending more. It’s simply amazing what you can wring out of yourself skill-wise, when you open up and learn a bit.

I have a couple different pistols that I like to stay fairly proficient with, an HK USP, a Single action 45LC, a Kahr K40, but most of my time and effort go into the pistol that I carry daily. It comes out of the holster and right onto the nightstand when I go to bed, so there’s no need for a different pistol. No need for a different manual of arms simply because it’s on the nightstand. That’s what MP is getting at, why have two different pistols? If it’s because you leave one at home on the nightstand or under a pillow, you should be slapped for leaving a gun unsecured. If it’s because you want to have more than one gun, then you need to re-evaluate where you live if it’s that dangerous that you’d need to go all Jon Woo (not recommended :stuck_out_tongue: ) on a hoard of bad guys.

The same logic applies to caliber selection. Reducing to one caliber saves on cost and logistics. Reducing to one type of pistol does the same. If it ever comes to a situation where you need to use it, you’ll need all the simplicity and familiarity possible to stay alive, even if you train like the dickens.

5

This guy’s right on. I realized that I don’t need 20+ guns (I’m 25)…what I do need are the basics: reliable pistol, rifle, shotgun…and tons of training and ammo.

So I’m in the process of offing some stuff…and going to be spending more $$ on training and practice. Yes, I’m a good shot standing still…but that’s not really the point, is it?

6

Thanks for the replies.

The importance of training isn’t lost on me as I too plan on taking some classes.

Also, I don’t mean collecting literally (hence “”). I am strictly speaking defensive arms vs. range guns or those passed down (guns which fit your defensive needs; collection of defensive arms).

7

While I understand the main point you are making, many people can have different handguns for HD and CCW.

In my case FL can be a hard state to actually conceal in given the usual climate. And I’d prefer not to use the same small frame, low capacity handguns I sometimes CCW with for HD.

For HD I want a full size high capacity handgun (assuming I’m using a handgun and not a SMG or carbine which I prefer for HD). So for a HD handgun we are usually talking about something like a P226 Tac for the 15+1 capacity and light rail. But really this isn’t much of an issue because my HD gun is usually a SMG or carbine and my CCW is usually a handgun.

Now “sometimes” I do CCW that same P226 Tac for all the reasons it is a HD handgun choice. But sometimes carrying a full size P226 is not an option. So from my “collection” I can choose things like my HK P7, G19, P228, SP101, Kel Tec P11 or Charter Undercover depending upon which one best fits my needs.

Other factors also come into play. Is it hurricane season where you are now guarding property from looters with days of no power on rainy nights? When that happens I usually don’t want my SIG P226 on my hip because they grow rust better than some other choices. In that instance I will usually have a HK USP, FN USG or a Glock 17. I will be on my property so open carry isn’t a problem and I can use a full size handgun to augment my carbine or SMG.

8

This wasnt worth saying. There are far too many variables between the two situations that would easily cause for different platforms or calibers. Would you rather place your loved one next to a man sized target at 10 yards with me shooting a 2 inch .38 special or a Glock 17?

9

I know of very few people that have the time and skill to become truly proficient with multiple platforms and types. Owning things, any things not just guns, just to own them holds zero interest for me.

Glocks and ARs. All I need. The Glocks do everything any other handgun will do as long as I maintain my skill set, and come in various sizes and caliber with almost no discernible change in the manual of arm. and the same thing for the AR. Every single thing I need or want to do with a firearm I can do with either a Glock or an AR in some flavor.

I deviated slightly and added a S&W 625 for front pocket carry, but I probably would be better off with a G26 for those same situations. Still not 100% set on keeping the 625.

The point here is that if you can intelligently lay out your needs, properly research your options, and make informed decisions as to what you purchase, it’s entirely possible to meet a LOT of needs with very few firearms, or at the very least with very few platforms.

On the training topic…

A typical 3-day training class is $500+/- in tuition. That’s a handgun. Ammo, travel, lodging, and incidentals might be another $500 depending on circumstances. That’s another handgun. Or together that’s one rifle (or the sum total of the cost of all the shit people bolt to a rifle with zero knowledge on how to use even the base gun, let alone the bolt-ons). I know people that have probably the cost of 10, 20, or even 100 training classes sitting in their safe yet they have never taken so much as a single hour of formal training with anyone other than their CCW instructor (which in Florida is a joke). Not surprisingly they can’t hit the broad side of a barn, and are lucky to hit the ground dropping a bullet if you ask them to do it on the move.

10

To Phixion:

Ignore the snobbery on this website. It is a place of good information, sometimes people think to highly of their own opinion, in my opinion.

Your gun collection is what it is. I have a good collection of guns, the only criteria being “is it useful OR interesting?” That and “can I afford it?”

Other than that, who cares? If you like a gun, get it!

11

Ha!

Anyway, I understand what you’re asking. I like to keep a minimum of calibers if possible. But I also keep a minimum of gun makes/models for parts commonality. I have 11 Glocks, all in 9mm, in the various sizes that Glock offers. That way I can pick a size to carry depending on the situation. I also have a backup for classes in case of mechanical problems, or God forbid, I’m involved in a shooting and my carry gun is taken for evidence. The class backup is the same idea behind my ARs, I have 2 set up exactly the same, and my others are set up similar, with the exception of a lower end Aimpoint, or lacking a rail. But I use the same sling setup on all of them.

I briefly deviated from this recently when I picked up a S&W M&P9 in a trade. While I liked it alot, I’m pretty heavily invested in Glock, with 60-70+ mags plus having holsters for them. So I traded it for another Glock.

Outside of my Glocks and ARs, I have a P22, because everyone should have a .22 pistol, a M14, because everyone should have a .308 battle rifle, a Rem 870, because everyone should have a shotgun, and my first .22 rifle that belonged to my dad.

My only 2 deviations from my system are a Springfield 1911 because it was a good deal and I wanted a decent 1911 again, and a Thompson M1 tommygun, because I figured I was already stocking .45 because of the 1911. Other than that I have no clue why I bought the damn thing. Its heavy, with a long length of pull that I don’t like and its not very useful. Its still cool though.

My system lets me keep my ammo stock streamlined: .22LR, 9mm, .45ACP, 5.56, .308, and 12gauge.

12

You seem to realize that mix & match doesn’t add to your proficiency, which is correct. Having defense guns with different controls, action types and handling characteristics can be effective, but it’s a high level skill for a seasoned operator.

If you want to become prficient quickly, settle on one platform and stick with it. You can carry an M&P compact 9mm all day fairly easy and still have a full size in 9 or .40 for home defense. When the weather turns cold (if it does in your area), you can up-carry the full size once the seasonal clothing will conceal it better. When you get ready for a .45, well they make one just like the rest. I’ve used the M&P for illustrative purposes, but most of the other reputable brands have the same options.

The same goes for rifles. You can get an AK in 5.45X45, .223, 7.62X39, and even 7.62X51 and 12, 20 and .410 guage shotgun. You can get an AR in .22LR, 9mm, .40, .45, .223 and a whole slew of other rifle calibers including some real heavies. You can get them with anything from 5" (SBR & SBS NFA rules apply) to 24" barrels. So the modularity and versatility is nearly limitless while maintaining the same operating characteristics and manual of arms.

The only thing this aproach doesn’t address is the basic drive for diversity among our toys. If you can live with that, you’ll find yourself more comfortable and proficient with your “collection”.

13

On the topic of “training” I would submit that most of today’s civilian accessible training is nothing more than a variety of intense gun handling training.

Gun handling is, in my opinion (based on experience) less than 10 percent of the skills you need to survive.

Bottom line is I would take a basic training private over a civilian 3 gun champion in a fight, if I was choosing a team. The Soldier will come with the intangibles that are so critical to success in combat; discipline for example.

The civilian training isn’t bad. But it does not equate expertise at employing a weapon in combat by any means. I am sure people here will disagree because the train to shoot on the move, from various positions, yada yada yada. This is not tactics training, it is weapon handling training. Tactics involves the skills to plan, prepare, and execute (be in a position to employ your weapon advantageously). I will re-iterate. Those skills are a minor subset of skills needed for success in combat. Another case in point. Ranger School, recognized as one of (if not THE) best school for preparing a Soldier for combat has absolutely no live-fire training. It is all planning, tactics, and practicing execution.

Weapon handling training is good.

14

The guys are right in that its amazing how much there is to learn to shoot well, and with even a day or two of the quality training the “evolutionary leap” can be huge.

I also have the motley crew of guns and every now again when I pull out the S&W Kit Gun 22 revolver (its fit is very different and it is very unforgiving of poor technique) but it teaches me something that I can apply to my autos, i.e. my trigger technique has gotten sloppy using short trigger pull autos:eek: And I’m forced to go back to fundamentals.

Right now with your experience it would be best to have a “pair” of Go To Guns for HD & CCW. (Sig is a solid choice)

You can’t work on things you don’t know and after a good school you will come home excited and maybe even a little overwhelmed with all the new things you can work on;)

15

I often lament that my collection has no “direction”. I have small collections of vastly different firearms, from quality CF hunting rifles, accurate .22 centerfires, down to AK’s, AR’s, and a mess of .22 rifles. The pistol side is even more scattered; classic old S&W and Colt revolvers, a few SAA’s to a suppressed HK Tactical, a pair of well done Browning HP’s a few 1911’s and my James Bond PPK Walther. I buy what interests me or the guns I need for varmint or big game hunting.

Though I do have somewhat of a collection of 1960-1980’s S&W revolvers.

I would suggest Instruction on safety and competant gun handling as a bare minimum. Once you see where your interests lie go from there. I know fellow shooters who have shot the old NRA bullseye pistol courses for fifty years now. And others who bounce around to every and any shooting discipline from Cowboy Action to Practical Pistol, Highpowered rifle, to shooting Sharps buffalo rifles in competition.

I think safety first is #1. Then competant gun handling, and hitting all the basics.

FN in MT

16

Replying using my Blackberry so quoting is difficult but…

I think part of my dilemma is the fact that I don’t have access to ANY weapons aside from the ones I own. That fact makes standardizing on one platform much more difficult because my first hand experience is limited to my initial impression at the gun store; trial and error.

I don’t look forward to the prospect of using any weapon in a defensive manner and I can’t even imagine how difficult it will be to use it effectively, but I understand the need to make things as simple as possible by knowing my defensive weapons inside and out.

No matter how much training I get, having different platforms for different defensive roles won’t be as effective as having one platform for said roles. I want to minimize and simplify my defensive tools, I just haven’t been able to … yet.

17

My collection makes sense, NOW

whaen I was in your shoes it didnt. I went through handguns early on nearly one a month.

Trying to fix a software problem with hardware.

It was fun, I learned alot, and I know a lot about many different platforms.

It wasnt until I sold a gun (GASP!) , admitted I didnt know, and got some training that I began to tie it all up and get it together.

Sure, I have a few “toys” around. SD isnt my only interest. I have a dedicated CMP AR as well. Not like Im gonna try to clear my house with a 20" HBAR :eek:

youll get there
your asking the right questions, looking at things honestly, and getting some good feedback from those that have experiance.

Dont buy another gun until you take a basic pistol class for your CCW from a reputable trainer.

on a side note, and Im not sure what the reactuion here will be, but my advice is to ditch the Sig. DA/SA guns have a much steeper learning curve then a SAO or “safe action” gun. I see guys in their fisrt class with them alot, and other then the guys who have to carry them for duty I dont see many at all later on.

18

A gun collection is exactly what it is…a collection. I have several guns (30+). I wish I had more, and I will. What you will learn is that you will purchase something and either not like how it shoots or get bored of it. In this case, you should trade it for something better. You may also have guns that are given to you by family members. Although these guns may not fit your style of shooting or may be a hunting rifle and you don’t hunt, there is more sentimental value and those guns will stay in your collection. I am not saying that I disagree with the guys that are telling you to get a good gun and train the hell out of it and that is all you ever need. What I am saying is that if you own several different types of guns, be proficient with the ones you use on a daily basis. For example… My duty gun is a Glock 22, my off duty carry gun is a Glock 23 and I replaced my Glock 27 for a Kahr Arms K40 because it is thinner, more accurate and fits in my back up body armor holster more comfortably. These are the guns that I care about being proficient with. I have one tier 1 AR that I train with and I am in the process of building a back up AR that is identical to the one I own now for training purposes. I have a Remington 870 Police that I also train with if I am sent to a class that requires the use of a shotgun (not many anymore). So what I am saying is that out of the several guns that I own, 5 of them I practice with exclusively and “worry” about shooting them proficiently. All of these guns mentioned are used (carried) on a daily basis and everything else I own I consider an investment or a novelty. I shoot many other weapons quite well, like my H&K P7 and Glock 19 but I don’t care how well, these will not be used to save my life. I have several M&Ps that I shoot pretty well and I carry the 45 open carry when I work part time at a gun shop. Carrying the M&P may contradict what I said about my “everyday guns” but I can not carry my duty weapon while working at the gun shop so I carry the biggest gun with the biggest bullet I can while at the shop. All the other ARs that I have or am in the process of building are for fun. What I am saying in so many words is knock yourself out collecting guns but choose one (or a short list of like guns because sometimes the gun has to fit your daily attire) that fits you and train the hell out of it. All the rest of them are a novelty and enjoy them too.

19

Given what you have in your colletion so far, my next purchase (borrowing your shoes) would be a shotgun of a well known and common variety, something that could be used for home defense, swap out a barrel and hunt some bird, swap in a slug barrel and get some deer. Modularity is great.

I am not disagreeing with those who are saying “a track day is the best bang for the buck in auto or motorcycle performance” it is true, as true in guns as it is in sports vehicles. Training is the best performance enhancer out there.

I would say your collection looks a little weak on Fudd potential. The shotgun would open “sporting uses” up to you & then maybe a good bolt action in a deer caliber. If you want to make your deer rifle feel sexy, you can call it a sniper rifle . . . those are the only “deficiencies” I see in your collection as it stands.

20

Shawn,

What are You a GLOCK Salesman?? DA/SA learning curve…Oh come on.:smiley:
(The following statement was issued with a SMILE as well as a FRIENDLY tone)

Taught a few hundred recruits how to master that steep DA/SA learning curve over the years and somehow we always seemed to get it done. We were issued SIG 229’s.

I agree that for many people a SA or Safe Action IS easier to master. But I don’t agree that one should simply throw out entire systems as they are a bit tougher to master. Again…not tryiing to be rude…simply have a contrary opinion.

Phixion…Your in a sad situation without gun loving friends. Surely does make picking up the sport tougher. Do you belong to a Range or Gun club? Know any LEO’s who are shooters?

Residing in the gun loving West, with 32 years of LE behind me, a dozen gun collecting buddies and a range in my back yard…I’m coming from a totally different place than you are.

FN in MT