I’ve read through various threads about USP’s both on this forum and many others. I still have not seen a definite answer to my question though.
The USP series hasn’t changed much since its release, yet it is still being produced and sold at a steady rate it seems. I know that the HK45 and HK45c have had improvements in ergonomics and a standardized light rail.
There still looks to be a large following for USP’s, but is it out of nostalgia? Or do they really offer something that the HK45 and HK45c no longer have?
I know there were the Elite and Expert models with fitted barrels and better triggers, but my question pertains to the USP45 and USP45c. Maybe even the HK45 Expert if it truly is that much better than the rest.
I have to jump through many hoops and pay a premium to get any of the updated HK45 and HK45c models. USP series pistols are still, for the most part, easy to buy here.
Does anyone simply prefer the USP series over any of the newer HK offerings for reasons other than collector value/nostalgia?
I’d like to try to add one .45 handgun to what I have. Everything else is 9 mm HK as I largely prefer the paddle magazine release. I’m in no rush, and if the HK45 and HK45c are truly worth looking out for then I can wait.
You already mentioned it but the USP Tactical and Expert versions use the o-ring system/match barrel as well as the ful match trigger system. Noticeable difference between the standard versions and the ones I mentioned, well worth the extra couple hundred bucks or so, especially considering what you get.
Now, as far as a standard HK45 compared to a standard USP45, for all intents and purposes there really isn’t an edge to either one. The ergonomics are better for most on the HK45, however, some who own/shoot both report the USP managing recoil better. I wouldn’t say the USP is outdated or inferior to the HK45 either; just different.
More trigger options, including a match trigger, has already been mentioned.
Other things to consider, ergos. Just as some don’t like Gen 3 and later glocks because of the grooves, some people don’t like H&K’s finger grooves. Next is mag capacity, I know more than a few who consider the HK45 a step backwards due to the fact that it is only a 10 round gun. Yes, I know, I know, but it is still a consideration to some who see more as being better always, and will not give up the two rounds, at least in the fullsize gun. Some also feel that the USP is the tank of polymer handguns, and I tend to agree to an extent having seen some of the shit people have done to USPs, including a pair which some dumbass had run compressed powder charged reloads through, blowing one gun to hell, literally breaking the frame, cracking the grip, and turning the mag to chucks, but apparently not injuring the owner much, because he then blew extractor out of the second one before deciding that perhaps these loads were just too hot for the gun. :suicide: While I have no doubt that the HK45 is tough, I am not sure it is that tough.
Next is price, the USP is cheaper than the HK45 versions by at least a hundred, if not more so, and sometimes you can find USPs are damn cheap prices. A friend just bought a NEW USP9c with night sites for $550. Also on the used market USP45s are often $200-400 less than their HK45 counterparts from what I see normally with the USPs running on the high end used $700-ish and sometimes as low as $500, while the HK45s usually don’t go less than $850 and often times for over $1K used for a standard model.
Other consideration, while the USP’s rail is not one that most here want, not everyone wants to attach a weapon light so to some the non-standard rail is a nonissue.
From HK’s point of view, there’s no reason to kill the USP. It’s incredibly durable and it can be configured in lots of odd ways with regard to trigger variants, both of which make it a serious contender in trials for overseas military and police contracts. Plus the machinery probably paid for itself ages ago, so they can sell it cheaply enough for small nations to arm their people with HK products. Basically, the USP printing money for HK, so whether American civilians like it is probably a pretty small concern in Oberndorf.
You have to remember that people who post in this forum and others like it care about things like ergos, rails, etc. We actively chase the state of the art, so we’re willing to pay for improvements that others may dismiss. The USP may not appeal to this crowd as much as other HK offerings, but there’s nothing actually wrong with it.
I couldn’t decide, so I own a couple of both. Side by side, to me, the USP45 has slightly less recoil, while follow up shots seem faster with the HK45. Only downside in my opinion is the cost of extra mags for the HK45 and somewhat limited holster selection. I have never had a problem with either model that wasn’t ammo related.
Speaking as an ole retired beat cop, the two best hand guns are the Colt .45 1911 and any H K. Carried both and they outdo S&W, Sigs, etc. Just my opinion. Oh yea, Glocks suck.
I’m glad you contributed so much to this conversation
I own both the full size USP 45 and the full size HK45. They are both fantastic guns, but different enough to me in their own right.
USP 45- The USP 45 is the most rock-solid 45 I have every fired in my life. Ergo’s are not great, it’s heavy, it’s blocky, but good lord does that thing run. Recoil impulse is fantastic. I have the DA/SA with a safety and decocker and the the DA trigger pull is too big for me to fire comfortably with my odd sized hands (short fingers, long palms). I am currently looking to get some LEM trigger time to decide if it fits my hands better. Mag release is on the small side on the stock version, but nothing some training won’t fix. It’s also incredibly accurate. The gun shoots damn tight groups, and I have an LE trade in model made on 01 with the original barrel.
HK45- The HK45 to me is one of the finest full size 45’s on the market. It is extremely accurate. The ergo’s are fantastic, and it fits my hands tons better than the USP45. It fits most people’s hands much better than the USP45. It definitely fits more shooters better as a whole. All the controls are close and tight, very easy to manipulate, the mag release is better also. The only real negative I can say about it is, the 10-rd mags which are pretty outrageously priced.
For me, they are both fantastic handguns that are the definition of overbuilt. You should rent and shoot both, and see what works better for you.
I own both in the compact versions. So, a little different than what you are asking about, but the jist is the same.
USP- Built like a tank since day one with a minor upgrade in the late 90’s that goes unnoticed unless one is a HK scholar. Shoots .45 better than just about any gun out there including most 19’s. The biggest things most dont like is the rail (adapters can be had for cheap) and the true combat triggers, that once broken in, really do smooth out. I went start the “high bore axis” debate, but that with ergos are THE two biggest beefs people have with the USP.
Bottom line, life depends on it? It wont let you down. I ran 4200 rounds through mine without a cleaning before a FTE…rock solid gear
HK45-Ergos, ergos,ergonomics. If you cant make this gun fit your hand, you are doing something wrong. The LEM trigger on the HK45 is almost as good as it gets. Short reset and a constant pull make it easy to run and run fast. Mags are costly and as long as you dont lose one,it will most likely last your lifetime. Aside from that, most of what applies to the USP also apllies to the HK45.
BOTH are outstanding pieces of hardcore, Herman the German engineering. No beta testing coming out HK. When you open the box you KNOW it is ready to do the dirty work, but enough of the plugging. I love them both, but I own 4 USP’s and just the one HK45.
There is just something about the USP that a lot of HK guys keep going after. Both outstanding and the USP can be found a lot cheaper. I would start there with a new one and search for a gently used HK45.
The big difference between the the original USP full size guns, including the .45 and all the later HK guns is the recoil spring / recoil buffer system in the full size USP. The recoil buffer makes the gun soft shooting, has a long service life and allows the USP 45 to handle +P and 45 Super loads without issues or modifications. However, the recoil buffer also affects the cycling and slide return making it difficult to shoot quick splits with the full size USP’s.
Over the past 20 years I’ve had a USP 40, USP 45 Expert, USP 45 Tactical and a USP 40 Expert. The Experts are in the book of tears aka guns I should never have sold.
I have small to medium sized hands, and I remember when holding an HK45 it felt a tiny bit large in the grip. I’m sure it would have been much better with the small sized back strap.
Is it possible to install the match trigger and O-ring barrel in a USPc 45? Basically can I replicate a USP Expert out of a USP Compact? Obviously the recoil spring assembly is not doable, but apart from that.
Also, I’m assuming that it is possible to convert a USP Expert to decocker only while still keeping the same match trigger?
Does such a thing as LEM with match trigger exist? Or does the match trigger only pertain to SA/DA variants?
Also, Is it possible to have the USPc 45 factory converted to LEM? If so, would they replace the upper slide assembly? Or just replace the required internals, ie. would there still be a hole where the safety lever was?
I know that some of these options exist as OEM from the factory, but CA handgun roster is specific on which variant is allowed, and no LEM 45’s are on the roster. The USP Expert 9 mm is also not allowed while the 40 and 45 are.
Also, has anyone noticed all the new USP Experts in 9 mm that suddenly showed up? I wonder if HK will be doing another run of Expert 45’s. Anyone have any inside info?
Thanks again everyone for your contributions to this thread.